VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[kaz7]

I wouldn’t have used that in a reply, but it doesn’t have any expletives nor can be perceived as aggressive.

You used that in a reply to me this afternoon ! Page 253 , liked by your chum

 

[ChicagoBlue]

The media thread is pointless bar venting spleens. Social media bubbles have made people immune to reading or hearing criticism. Hence all commentators are awful as well.

Politics affects peoples’ lives and is more important to me than other topics.

Anyway, back to this thread’s topic, VAR has highlighted the high number of subjective calls made by referees in football and the LOTG weren’t written with forensic scrutiny from 15 camera angles in slow motion.

Hence we have this mess now that Webb has made worse.

Clear and obvious needs binning. Not re-refereeing needs binning. It seems VAR is scared to overturn onfield decisions unless they can’t back them up at all.

The penalty conversation last night should have been:

“There’s contact, penalty”

“Ok, We can see that Anthony, but he takes two further steps before falling to the ground, so we suggest you look at it again as we don’t think the contact has made him fall over.”

How that is written in the LOTG, I don’t know, but maybe we need to work backwards from the outcome we want to happen rather than tying ourselves up in knots with billions of sub-laws.

“Contact” is not a foul in the LOTG, but somehow almost any contact in the box is cause for a flop and a penalty.

I honestly didn’t think either penalty given was one. They both dived. In fact, I’d venture 50%+ penalties that fall under the “There’s contact, it’s penalty” umbrella are literal dives where the contact is not even close to that required to send a grown man to the ground. They are “bought,” in the parlance of the day.

Football as I knew it is gone and we have a new spectacle that is so driven by the money that comes from success (or loss of money from failure) that almost anything is considered fair game to win.

Whether legally corrupt or not, the GAME OF FOOTBALL has been corrupted by cheats we used to mock and now we laud, especially when they’re on our own team.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

You used that in a reply to me this afternoon !

Not your reply, Bluehammer’s reply to me.

 

[kaz7]

Not your reply, Bluehammer’s reply to you.

Of course you wouldnt have , he is not me or Seb ..

 

[gingerprince]

You can bet if an already booked Rodri made the same challenge as Joelinton, then the
Ref would not be playing advantage to the opposition, no matter how advantageous it
would have been, he'd be out with a 2nd yellow and a red for Rodri at once.....

 

[mancboy]

What is this svar nonsense in our cup game, apparently the var now needs an assistant, for the life of me i cant understand why it needs two useless dickheads to make an incorrect decision, one seemed to be doing fine

 

[Bill the Blue]

It’s supposed to be for times where the assistant isn’t 100% sure that the player is offside.

So, 50-99% sure, then the attack will carry on and be flagged at the end of the pahse of play.

0-50% and the flag stays down and play carries on as normal unless a goal is scored and the offside is then checked.

With all due respect the above is utter bollox..

Can you tell me why Rashford was allowed to run in on goal at the swamp against us when he was yards, not inches, yards offside..?

Why didn't the linesman flag him offside at the time.?

It wasn't even close to being onside..

I'm not having it that he didn't touch the ball so was deemed to be not interfering with play either..

Every game you see players flagged offside when they're no where near the ball.

Therefore, absolutely no difference to Rashford being in an offside position when our defense stepped up and played him yards offside..

It's corruption and result manipulation in plain sight and it's still going on judging by last night's shit show at Anfield..

 

[hertsblue]

I think it is. Here's the interpretation I saw, which again is a very messy rule open to subjectivity. I would say Taylor got it spot on last night but how many others would make the same call? Is it any surprise there is zero consistency when these are the rules?

Of course they come out with this to appease the Dippers but no comment over its officials giving and not overturning both penalties plus not giving Newcastles (not a pen for me but if those Dipper ones are then Newcastles was).
Webb somehow has made things a lot worse since he took over

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

With all due respect the above is utter bollox..

Can you tell me why Rashford was allowed to run in on goal at the swamp against us when he was yards, not inches, yards offside..?

Why didn't the linesman flag him offside at the time.?

It wasn't even close to being onside..

I'm not having it that he didn't touch the ball so was deemed to be not interfering with play either..

Every game you see players flagged offside when they're no where near the ball.

Therefore, absolutely no difference to Rashford being in an offside position when our defense stepped up and played him yards offside..

It's corruption and result manipulation in plain sight and it's still going on judging by last night's shit show at Anfield..

With as much respect returned, the Rashford one was a mistake, quasi admitted by Webb. The linesman did flag him offside, so he did his job, so the example doesn’t stop the protocol that I outlined above being true.

If the thread is going to have to go through its corruption spleen venting, I won’t comment on that as it’s a reactionary, unproven conspiracy theory.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Not sure what the answer is for VAR. At the end of the day a large proportion of, if not all, offences are based on a subjective judgment, normally made in a fraction of a second. All VAR is doing is moving the subjectivity from the onfield team, which drove fans crazy but as least could be understood, to the VAR team, which drives people crazy because they should be able to get it "right". I am on the side that says the disruption to the game and the fans' enjoyment of the game isn't worth the benefit, quite frankly. But I suppose it is here to stay.

 

[TinFoilHat]

I think it is. Here's the interpretation I saw, which again is a very messy rule open to subjectivity. I would say Taylor got it spot on last night but how many others would make the same call? Is it any surprise there is zero consistency when these are the rules?

Swap PGMOL for FSG

 

[halfcenturyup]

With as much respect returned, the Rashford one was a mistake, quasi admitted by Webb. The linesman did flag him offside, so he did his job, so the example doesn’t stop the protocol that I outlined above being true.

If the thread is going to have to go through its corruption spleen venting, I won’t comment on that as it’s a reactionary, unproven conspiracy theory.

He flagged after Fernandes scored, didn't he? The guy was in an offside position by two yards so according to protocol the lino should have put his flag up straight away?

And iirc, Webb didn't say it was a mistake, he said it was the right decision according to the law but it wouldn't happen again. Whatever that means?

 

[Stephen230]

It’s supposed to be for times where the assistant isn’t 100% sure that the player is offside.

So, 50-99% sure, then the attack will carry on and be flagged at the end of the pahse of play.

0-50% and the flag stays down and play carries on as normal unless a goal is scored and the offside is then checked.

The actual wording for the delayed flag is…

… When an immediate goalscoring opportunity is likely to occur and there is a tight, marginal offside call, the assistant referee should keep their flag down until the passage of play is completed.

Obviously, ‘tight, marginal’ is subjective but we see it being used for anything bar absolute miles offside most of the time. And also when players are in wide positions with no immediate likelihood of scoring. Linesman maybe need to back themselves a bit more and save it for those really tight ones. It is actually very rare that they get anything but the really close ones wrong anyway.

I haven’t actually got a problem with the Stones one that a lot weren’t happy with. It was very tight and the lad was clean through on goal. That’s the exact sort of situation it’s intended for.

That he got injured was very unfortunate but that’s just part of the game.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

A simple improvement in VAR would be a protected TV Review screen next to both goals, so the ref can make his penalty call and then him (or her now!) can immediately review their call.

“I think the defender tripped the attacker before he cleared the ball. Give me a slo-mo view from the side while you find me your best views. I’m looking to see whether there was contact AND whether it was sufficient to call it a foul.”

In the NFL, the on field refs review their own calls while the TV audience watches the same replays.

It’s bad enough having a bad on field ref, but when you compound it by having Atwell as the VAR, WITHOUT HEARING THEM COLLUDE, it only makes it worse, not better!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Obviously, ‘tight, marginal’ is subjective but we see it being used for anything bar absolute miles offside most of the time. And also when players are in wide positions with no immediate likelihood of scoring. Linesman maybe need to back themselves a bit more and save it for those really tight ones. It is actually very rare that they get anything but the really close ones wrong anyway.

Like.

I think most linesmen do a brilliant job, but it really is IMPOSSIBLE for them to see two things, involving at least 3 players, at the same time, especially when all 3 of them might well be moving at speed, sometimes in opposite directions…all while they themselves are on the move!

That said, it REALLY pisses me off when they do finally out the flag up but don’t move back up the field where the event occurred! Sometimes, the free kick for the offside is 20-30 yards behind where it actually occurred!

 

[Stephen230]

What is this svar nonsense in our cup game, apparently the var now needs an assistant, for the life of me i cant understand why it needs two useless dickheads to make an incorrect decision, one seemed to be doing fine

Not sure what is new? There’s been an assistant VAR since day 1. They are usually specialist linesman.

Their main job is to continue watching live play while the VAR is reviewing an incident whilst play is continuing, in case there’s a further incident during that time, which he otherwise would be unaware of.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

He flagged after Fernandes scored, didn't he? The guy was in an offside position by two yards so according to protocol the lino should have put his flag up straight away?

And iirc, Webb didn't say it was a mistake, he said it was the right decision according to the law but it wouldn't happen again. Whatever that means?

Hence my use of quasi.

He flagged after the ball was touched.

It’s really not worth going over again. The lineman did his job, the referee didn’t.

 

[Bill the Blue]

With as much respect returned, the Rashford one was a mistake, quasi admitted by Webb. The linesman did flag him offside, so he did his job, so the example doesn’t stop the protocol that I outlined above being true.

If the thread is going to have to go through its corruption spleen venting, I won’t comment on that as it’s a reactionary, unproven conspiracy theory.

Mistake you say, well that explains that..

Appreciate you clearing that up for me..

Games are being reffed in a darkened room, next to no transparency, no accountability, recourse or responsibility apportioned and we then have to take the word of the front man for this clusterfcuk, a Mr Howard Webb, constantly telling one and all that things will get better..

There is absolutely no excuse for the blatant decision given to the rags in that game and again last night, penalty decisions given that were beyond poor..

Notwithstanding umpteen other shit calls that just cannot be explained away as human error..

VAR's beginning to smell more and more fishy as the days roll by to be honest..

Keep banging the VAR drum though, you're doing a great job

 

[citizen_maine]

Mistake you say, well that explains that..

Appreciate you clearing that up for me..

Games are being reffed in a darkened room, next to no transparency, no accountability, recourse or responsibility apportioned and we then have to take the word of the front man for this clusterfcuk, a Mr Howard Webb, constantly telling one and all that things will get better..

There is absolutely no excuse for the blatant decision given to the rags in that game and again last night, penalty decisions given that were beyond poor..

Notwithstanding umpteen other shit calls that just cannot be explained away as human error..

VAR's beginning to smell more and more fishy as the days roll by to be honest..

Keep banging the VAR drum though, you're doing a great job

All 3 decisions were given by the ref though, so would have stood if VAR didn't exist

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Mistake you say, well that explains that..

Appreciate you clearing that up for me..

Games are being reffed in a darkened room, next to no transparency, no accountability, recourse or responsibility apportioned and we then have to take the word of the front man for this clusterfcuk, a Mr Howard Webb, constantly telling one and all that things will get better..

There is absolutely no excuse for the blatant decision given to the rags in that game and again last night, penalty decisions given that were beyond poor..

Notwithstanding umpteen other shit calls that just cannot be explained away as human error..

VAR's beginning to smell more and more fishy as the days roll by to be honest..

Keep banging the VAR drum though, you're doing a great job

Yeah, I don’t think you’ve read my posts suggesting that all the decisions that you mentioned were all wrong.

If you think that’s banging a drum, all power to you.

If you want to rant about conspiracy theories, go for it. Loads will join in and love it.