Ref Watch City Games - 2023/24

[the-ecstacy-of-eight]

Yes, yet nobody describes footballers as corrupt.

I'd say that the officials can act corruptly, but they can't really cheat, whereas players can do both and it's just easier to simply call them cheats.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

That's the generally accepted definition, I guess. Then there are further definitions within that for political corruption, for example, or, more relevant to what we are discussing, corruption of processes.

What Clattenburg did may not be institutional corruption (unless the PL/PGMOL were aware, and lets not forget, his departure from the PL was rather swift and unexpected), it was certainly corrupt at the individual level.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

The joys of Darren England tonight. Great.

 

[dronefromsector7G]

Yes, yet nobody describes footballers as corrupt.

Well we’re in the referee thread. We can talk about corrupt (cheating) players elsewhere

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I'd say that the officials can act corruptly, but they can't really cheat, whereas players can do both and it's just easier to simply call them cheats.

Loads on here think that the refs cheat. “How else can X not be a red card/penalty?”

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Well we’re in the referee thread. We can talk about corrupt (cheating) players elsewhere

It’s the rhetoric difference that we are discussing though, so I think it is relevant to this thread.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Does those activities come under the definition above? Dishonesty? To get a favourable decision?

They aren't in a position of authority, so it's not really relevant. Unless the players are offering money for decisions, in which case the player is guilty of bribery and the referee of corruption.

In the case of home players using home advantage to get favourable decisions at certain clubs, the authorities are only corrupt if they know it happens regularly (everyone knows it does), it happens continually (it does) and it doesn't get corrected (it doesn't).

 

[halfcenturyup]

What Clattenburg did may not be institutional corruption (unless the PL/PGMOL were aware, and lets not forget, his departure from the PL was rather swift and unexpected), it was certainly corrupt at the individual level.

That's where the process comes in. Individual referees can make wrong decisions for many reasons, one of which is corruption, of course (money, betting and, yes, even personal dislike) but the process is only corrupted if it happens regularly and PGMOL don't have a system in place to detect it and correct it. And if they don't, then the PL are involved if they don't have a system in place to detect and correct such weaknesses.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Fucking dodgy bastards!

*just getting it in early for tonight

Might as well.

Darren Dipper England will do his best.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

It is relevant. No one has called Trippier or Paqueta corrupt for acts that have made friends and family money.

It’s over the top rhetoric. Footballing wokery.

 

[Stephen230]

Ask the ESPN guy if he can remember a bad decision going our way against Dipperpool and being allowed to stand? Give him the last fifty years to go at. (We did get an offside given against Sterling when he was onside at the Etihad a few years ago, the only one I can remember)

Is it safe to assume that by totally ignoring the question that you can’t give any examples this season of a VAR giving a penalty for a similar handball incident to the Chelsea one?

 

[TinFoilHat]

An old List from 21/22 season. Struggling to find an updated one.

I'd hope professionality would come into play over allegiance to football teams but you can see how it might subconsciously affect some.


For example.


Stuart Attwell gets an Everton game which could impact Luton.

A few years ago Kevin Friend was removed from a match for that reason.

 

[TonyColemansbagofapples]

Is it safe to assume that by totally ignoring the question that you can’t give any examples this season of a VAR giving a penalty for a similar handball incident to the Chelsea one?

Why does there need to be a similar example? It was like a basketball move and, no, I can't think of one as blatant as that. It wasn't only handball it was also a shirt pull. Right in front of the referee.

 

[blue by birth]

Could you define corruption for me and explain why a City vs Bolton game would be the match for him to use this?

Well if you can't see that cheating is corruption then I really can't help you..but here goes corruption is dishonest or fraudulent behaviour of someone in a position of power..in a football game a referee is someone in power.
As for whichever game it is, that doesn't really matter..that was the game he admitted sending off a player for diving when he said it was a definite penalty.
He was the same ref who said he gave the rags a corner even though it was a goal kick as he was scared of Keane.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Well if you can't see that cheating is corruption then I really can't help you..but here goes corruption is dishonest or fraudulent behaviour of someone in a position of power..in a football game a referee is someone in power.
As for whichever game it is, that doesn't really matter..that was the game he admitted sending off a player for diving when he said it was a definite penalty.
He was the same ref who said he gave the rags a corner even though it was a goal kick as he was scared of Keane.

I bet all referees have made decisions based on dislike of a player.

What would most people on here do if they were refereeing Bruno Fernandes? Would that be corruption?

Clattenburg is the referee with the most question marks around him. Rightly so as he’s run his mouth off admitting he made decisions based on his inability to be totally professional. It defines him as a shit referee and a bad egg.

I see corruption as someone gaining financial or power reward in exchange for making incorrect decisions to change results. I don’t see any proof of that.

 

[cheekybids]

I bet all referees have made decisions based on dislike of a player.

What would most people on here do if they were refereeing Bruno Fernandes? Would that be corruption?

Clattenburg is the referee with the most question marks around him. Rightly so as he’s run his mouth off admitting he made decisions based on his inability to be totally professional. It defines him as a shit referee and a bad egg.

I see corruption as someone gaining financial or power reward in exchange for making incorrect decisions to change results. I don’t see any proof of that.

If I was refereeing Fernandes I would hope that noone could question my integrity as a lifelong Robins fan but it’s safe to say the **** would walk….

& yeah that’s corrupt ;)

 

[Paladin]

I'm not talking about the mad breakdancing flip thing, that's understandable, he's frustrated.
I'm talking about his actions as they hit the deck.
Have another watch of the incident (if you can bear to put yourself through it again), he seems to be solely focused on making sure that his final position after the fall is clearly ahead of Sterling. Whilst looking over at the ref he tries to sort of 'swim' across the turf.

If you've read my other posts you'll see that I'm in agreement with you on pretty much all the points you made, the post you quoted was me simply accepting that I could now see the possibility of why this decision possibly didn't go in our favor.

I'm more concerned about this modern interpretation that "bear hugging at a corner and then forcibly throwing an opponent to the floor in the penalty area isn't a foul if the ball gets cut out before it reaches where you were". It's utter bollocks!

Sorry mate, if I misunderstood your thoughts. There is a tendency to exaggerate contact on the modern game, and I despise it from all players, including City players. I watched Sterling in the clip, and he is just genuinely trying to get the ball. There was no guile at all in his play. He's definitely an honest player, and it would have been very harsh to penalise him for that. Correct decision for me.

Walker initiates the contact. It's one of those where Clattenburg would have done that 'coming together' thing with his hands.

 

[the-ecstacy-of-eight]

Loads on here think that the refs cheat. “How else can X not be a red card/penalty?”

I'm much more of a numbers man than a words man and this sort of stuff really ties my brain up in knots, BUT (I know you hate random capitalisation:) 'cheating' sort of implies that you're doing something dishonest in order to gain an advantage, and since a football match is a competition between two sets of players any 'advantage' gained is theirs and not the referees. So, like I said, refs can be corrupt but they can't really cheat. Players can be corrupt and cheats.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I'm much more of a numbers man than a words man and this sort of stuff really ties my brain up in knots, BUT (I know you hate random capitalisation:) 'cheating' sort of implies that you're doing something dishonest in order to gain an advantage, and since a football match is a competition between two sets of players any 'advantage' gained is theirs and not the referees.

Not sure that was necessary, but it failed to get a reaction as you showed it was literally for WUMming purposes.

The players gain an advantage if it changes the result in their favour. That’s blatant result manipulation!

I don’t believe that 99.9% of refs are corrupt. Some are easier to be led by crowds and players than others. The top ones should be less swayed though.

 

[blue by birth]

I bet all referees have made decisions based on dislike of a player.

What would most people on here do if they were refereeing Bruno Fernandes? Would that be corruption?

Clattenburg is the referee with the most question marks around him. Rightly so as he’s run his mouth off admitting he made decisions based on his inability to be totally professional. It defines him as a shit referee and a bad egg.

I see corruption as someone gaining financial or power reward in exchange for making incorrect decisions to change results. I don’t see any proof of that.

My last post on this issue with you as you obviously just want to prolong a pointless debate.
If someone on here was a ref and sent off a player for no reason and knowing that was a bullshit decision then it's cheating and corrupting the game.
In my eyes if you deliberately break the rules it's cheating and if that cheating changes a game then it's corrupt.
He said he sent Bellamy off because he didn't like him but who is to say that he didn't financially benefit from that decision..he's admitted he's a rule breaking **** and it's no beyond the realms of possibility that he gained a financial incentive,
Probably easier to do something like that in a game with little at stake so less scrutiny.