VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[Scaring Europe to Death]

VAR was introduced (or so we all thought) to eliminate the real howlers like the Maradona hand-of-god, the Scotland-Wales WC Penalty at Anfield, or (for older City supporters) the Jeff Blockley handball at Highbury in 72-73.
Perhaps even De Bruyne's disallowed goal v Liverpool in the CL when the cameras proved that the ball had diverted from a Liverpool shirt?

It might also have disallowed SWP's equalizer in the famous 4-3 comeback at White Hart Lane. However, nobody mentioned marginal-offside when the technology was first mooted, and I didn't hear a single dissenting comment over the match experience in real-time, and how it would dilute the way we celebrate the moment

As for handball, it's actually muddied the waters for a rule that seems to get more complicated every time it's amended.
Grealish v the rags?
Grealish v Chelsea?
Rodri v Everton?

I can't comment because I literally don't understand the law anymore.

 

[super_city_si]

Or would it............. ;-)

It was Leeds so probably :)

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

VAR was introduced (or so we all thought) to eliminate the real howlers like the Maradona hand-of-god, the Scotland-Wales WC Penalty at Anfield, or (for older City supporters) the Jeff Blockley handball at Highbury in 72-73.
Perhaps even De Bruyne's disallowed goal v Liverpool in the CL when the cameras proved that the ball had diverted from a Liverpool shirt?

It might also have disallowed SWP's equalizer in the famous 4-3 comeback at White Hart Lane. However, nobody mentioned marginal-offside when the technology was first mooted, and I didn't hear a single dissenting comment over the match experience in real-time, and how it would dilute the way we celebrate the moment

As for handball, it's actually muddied the waters for a rule that seems to get more complicated every time it's amended.
Grealish v the rags?
Grealish v Chelsea?
Rodri v Everton?

I can't comment because I literally don't understand the law anymore.

You are not alone. Howie Redshirt has been running around since taking over from Old Mother Riley to provide his PiGMOL colleagues with a definitive statement on what is handball. His latest instruction, which we've sensed for some time, was to make it up as you go along.

 

[Peaceful Terrier]

Why should Forest put up with it? It's either incompetence or corruption. You seem to think that clubs should just continually roll over , politely complain and accept a PGMOL apology the useless incompetent or corrupt official, either way it's the same result , then gets suspended for a game and then we all carry on in the same vein. Rinse repeat. I don't think PHMOL are good enough to be in charge of a multi billion pound business. Unless people make a stand against things that are clearly wrong nothing ever gets changed in any walk of life. I just wish City and other clubs would call this crap officiating out.

Why should Forest put up with it?! Well, they were certainly happy enough 2 years ago when VAR saved their arses at Wembley at our expense. Fuck em.

 

[Andy TheCatalyst Morrison]

They are examples not a definition.

It’s not easy to give a definition that rules in everything you want reviewing and rules out everything that you don’t.

But that is what the authorities would need to do. They can’t have a system built around words like “howlers”

Not my job to define a howler but surely someone can come up with something that is better than the absolute shitshow that we have. All anyone really wants is to eliminate the howlers. I made a suggestion earlier about a 30 second time limit on the review. That should be enough to eliminate the vast majority I would have thought.

As someone said earlier, you could even use the phrase “clear and obvious” ;-)

 

[Stephen230]

It's embarrassing that he has been picked. If Webb had anything about him , he would have sacked Atwell.

Well that’s a matter of opinion.

Clearly not one that the big wigs at UEFA share though.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Not my job to define a howler but surely someone can come up with something that is better than the absolute shitshow that we have. All anyone really wants is to eliminate the howlers. I made a suggestion earlier about a 30 second time limit on the review. That should be enough to eliminate the vast majority I would have thought.

As someone said earlier, you could even use the phrase “clear and obvious” ;-)

It does eliminate the howlers, if a player is clearly offside it’s ruled out, if a player clearly uses his hand it’s handball, if a player is clearly fouled in the box it’s a penalty deemed by VAR 99% of the time.
Very rarely is a ‘howler’ allowed.
The Coventry goal and Forest decisions were not howlers, they were all very marginal decisions.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Well that’s a matter of opinion.

Clearly not one that the big wigs at UEFA share though.

What we're your thoughts on Atwell letting utds offside goal stand and overuling the lino when on VAR a couple of years back? Happy with that, did you understand his rationale for coming to that conclusion?

 

[meltonblue]

You don't know that for certain tho do you? As far as I can see that's just your best guess as to how that offside was arrived at.

You haven't heard the audio, seen any slo mo video have you? So you are no more certain than I am.

Well they’ve come out and said no error was made and if Coventry want to, they can request and hear the audio or any of the process. I don’t believe they’d do that if they’re not sure they followed the same process they have done for every other one.

I don’t know it for certain absolutely but I’ve got no reason to think otherwise.

Just to reassert though, I never wanted Var in the first place and absolutely would rather a system, if we have to have one, that allows for goals like Coventrys to stand.

 

[Andy TheCatalyst Morrison]

It does eliminate the howlers, if a player is clearly offside it’s ruled out, if a player clearly uses his hand it’s handball, if a player is clearly fouled in the box it’s a penalty deemed by VAR 99% of the time.
Very rarely is a ‘howler’ allowed.
The Coventry goal and Forest decisions were not howlers, they were all very marginal decisions.

That is my point! Just rule out the howlers. VAR reviews done in 30 seconds and no dodgy millimetre offsides, non-sensical handballs etc

 

[Stephen230]

What we're your thoughts on Atwell letting utds offside goal stand and overuling the lino when on VAR a couple of years back? Happy with that, did you understand his rationale for coming to that conclusion?

As we’ve never heard the audio, we’re guessing.

But the noise coming from Webb at the time was that the referee had decided that Rashford was not interfering. If the referee tells the VAR he’s seen a subjective incident perfectly clearly and has made his call, there’s nowhere for the VAR to go really.

The short time it took to give the goal also indicates the VAR had little input in that decision.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

As we’ve never heard the audio, we’re guessing.

But the noise coming from Webb at the time was that the referee had decided that Rashford was not interfering. If the referee tells the VAR he’s seen a subjective incident perfectly clearly and has made his call, there’s nowhere for the VAR to go really.

The short time it took to give the goal also indicates the VAR had little input in that decision.

'Not interfering'... apart from when Ederson moved to close down Rashford which then left him wide open to a shot from Rat Face when he stepped over the ball, and blocking the run or Akanji?

ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY INTERFERING WITH PLAY.

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

'Not interfering'... apart from when Ederson moved to close down Rashford which then left him wide open to a shot from Rat Face when he stepped over the ball?

ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY INTERFERING WITH PLAY.

And the linesman flagged offside

 

[Stephen230]

'Not interfering'... apart from when Ederson moved to close down Rashford which then left him wide open to a shot from Rat Face when he stepped over the ball, and blocking the run or Akanji?

ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY INTERFERING WITH PLAY.

We weren’t discussing the referees decision. The guy asked me specifically about the VARs role in it.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

As we’ve never heard the audio, we’re guessing.

But the noise coming from Webb at the time was that the referee had decided that Rashford was not interfering. If the referee tells the VAR he’s seen a subjective incident perfectly clearly and has made his call, there’s nowhere for the VAR to go really.

The short time it took to give the goal also indicates the VAR had little input in that decision.

It was wrong on several levels. The lino flagged, and therefore Akanji stopped running. Remember? VAR just froze and let the farce continue. Possibly one of the worst decisions ever in PL history.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Well they’ve come out and said no error was made and if Coventry want to, they can request and hear the audio or any of the process. I don’t believe they’d do that if they’re not sure they followed the same process they have done for every other one.

I don’t know it for certain absolutely but I’ve got no reason to think otherwise.

Just to reassert though, I never wanted Var in the first place and absolutely would rather a system, if we have to have one, that allows for goals like Coventrys to stand.

They would say that wouldn't they. They close ranks everytime.
Hear no evil, see no evil.

 

[Cassandra]

In my eyes the biggest issue with VAR is that it has highlighted problems with the way the laws are constructed and consequently in the law makers and law enforcers. Previously it was possible to hide behind the “referee only has a split second to make a decision and only gets one view of an incident” excuse. Now we see that even with more angles and more times many strange looking decisions are still being made. That does’t deny that some absolute errors have been eliminated.

There are a number of problems with the laws and the law makers. The main one is that they lack a description of the purpose of each law and attempt to cover the minute detail instead. and. Most real life incidents don’t quite fit neatly into the descriptors. The laws are written in a way suitable for a standard operating system for an engineering process where everything is standardised but not really for judging a dynamic game where virtually nothing is standardised. This is compounded by a complete failure to understand the science of measurement and the concept of errors in any measurement. Hence the minutely separated offside measurements which are pretty much swamped by the errors in the measurement systems.

All of the above is compounded by a culture of secrecy and lack of transparency, including an apparent (to the general public at any rate) lack of any objective assessment of refereeing performance.

 

[ancoats]

You're not seeing the offside at the point the ball was played.

Wan-Bissaka is running back towards goal, while the Coventry player has held his run, and waits for the ball. By the time you see the play, Wan-Bissaka has run on well past the attacker.

That video shows just how hard it is for an assistant ref to get an offside right.

At no point was Wan-Bissaka running back or holding the line, he was running towards his own goal, Even if you are using the Official replay it still looks onside, Would be good if you could run both videos at the same time and it should show that he is onside,

Plus the official replay they always but out is blurry and from a high angle so when you zoom in it is impossible to see the red and blue lines clearly, But somebody zoomed in and the boots of Wan-Bissaka under the lines ???

 

[ancoats]

Err no it doesn't

it's clearly onside and Wan-Bissaka is so far ahead of the Coventry player that one stride backwards he is still going to behind the ball

 

[Stephen230]

It was wrong on several levels. The lino flagged, and therefore Akanji stopped running. Remember? VAR just froze and let the farce continue. Possibly one of the worst decisions ever in PL history.

I’m not disputing it was an awful decision. But if the referee was insistent that he’d seen it clearly and he’s decided it wasn’t offside, it’s effectively out of the VARs hands.