VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[BlueHammer85]

*too

toouché :)

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Not based on the current implementation of VAR it isn’t though, people have just decided now it is because it stopped Coventry from beating United. I’m fine with that, change the implementation then and increase the margins even more than they currently are if people want that.

The margins were increased for this season, certainly in the PL.

The only time I recall the increased margins being implemented was for St Marcus of Rashford in their game v the Dipper's.

 

[Stephen230]

You can build a system like that. The DRS in cricket is a good example. It’s actually built to correct obvious howlers by the umpire but crucially built in is an acceptance that on the subjective even tech can’t give the correct answer so umpires call can be factored in

Any overhaul of VAR should go back to first principles - a tool to support the ref as the ultimate arbiter of games to make better decisions themselves

I’m sure it can be done. I’m just asking the multitude of people who claim that VAR should be reserved for howlers, to have a go at putting into English how they would like that worded.

The authorities can’t just say… We will reserve the use of it for ‘howlers’ It would need to be specifically worded so that it includes everything people want corrected and nothing that they don’t.

 

[bluenova]

I’m sure it can be done. I’m just asking the multitude of people who claim that VAR should be reserved for howlers, to have a go at putting into English how they would like that worded.

The authorities can’t just say… We will reserve the use of it for ‘howlers’ It would need to be specifically worded so that it includes everything people want corrected and nothing that they don’t.

I think the howler would have to be clearly seen and an obvious error.

Bingo! "Clear and obvious"

Can't see anyone objecting to that ;)

 

[meltonblue]

The margins were increased for this season, certainly in the PL.

The only time I recall the increased margins being implemented was for St Marcus of Rashford in their game v the Dipper's.

It’s been in for every game since the start of last season hasn’t it? I haven’t seen them using the thinner lines once.

I do think the margin for error should be increased more though.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I’m not technically minded enough to know the ins and outs mate. But that image is taken from a camera no where near level with the lines it is showing. That’s is bound to show distortions to the human eye isn’t it? More so when you’ve zoomed in.

It’s like the way two perfectly parallel lines will eventually meet to the human eye, if you can see them far enough. Don’t even try and explain that to me. But it’s a fact.

Accepted, but at each point on the way to the horizon, the lines will appear to be the same width (as each other) as long as they are in reality the same width.

Anyway, never mind.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Fucking hell - good memory PB.

Forgot about all that shit with Mason.........

I worked with the Lino in the United v QPR game(Ceri Richards) for a short while. He never got another game after that, I think it was his howler as the near to play linesman. Very nice guy though.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Not really, all i ever see is .. 'yeh we had a decision go for us, lets see what happens next time'' and then nothing happens. all forgotten.

Yeah, if you say so. But it's a thing. Something that we didn't have before VAR. Which is my point, VAR has introduced so much more than just correct decisions (and even that is debatable if you don't necessarily believe the stats that PGMOL try to convince us with). It's changed, over complicated, the game so much that we're stupefied. The refs, the fans, the players.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I think the howler would have to be clearly seen and an obvious error.

Bingo! "Clear and obvious"

Can't see anyone objecting to that ;)

And you could easily apply the "clear and obvious" test to offside. If it's not immediately clear whether a player is offside then you give them the benefit of the doubt.

If you have to draw lines then it's patently not clear and obvious.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

It’s been in for every game since the start of last season hasn’t it? I haven’t seen them using the thinner lines once.

I do think the margin for error should be increased more though.

 

[Stephen230]

I think the howler would have to be clearly seen and an obvious error.

Bingo! "Clear and obvious"

Can't see anyone objecting to that ;)

And in fairness with one or two noticeable exceptions we seem to have pretty much reached that point as far as fouls go.

It seems to take an attempt murder for VAR to recommend an overturn this season.

Just off side left to sort out now.

 

[mancboy]

View attachment 115582

if we are applying the current rules the onside line would have been drawn from the top of johhny boulders shoulder so the margin for error would have been huge in var terms.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Yeah, if you say so. But it's a thing. Something that we didn't have before VAR. Which is my point, VAR has introduced so much more than just correct decisions (and even that is debatable if you don't necessarily believe the stats that PGMOL try to convince us with). It's changed, over complicated, the game so much that we're stupefied. The refs, the fans, the players.

Well, this is one example.

Lets see how they screw us over again today , for sure as the pope is catholic they will

You beat Bournemouth. There was nothing controversial. No major talking points or VAR.

All fans claim 'you watch them screw us over' and 99% of the time nothing happens. Obviously if you keep shouting 'watch them screw us over' a controversial officiating decision happens eventually. and then they feel justified.

 

[meltonblue]

View attachment 115582

It’s the two lines before that I was talking about.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I think the howler would have to be clearly seen and an obvious error.

Bingo! "Clear and obvious"

Can't see anyone objecting to that ;)

The “clear and obvious” rule effectively renders VAR inert most of the time, though, and allows for nearly the same opportunity for human error or manipulation that existed prior to its implementation. Which just should not be the case.

The bar is so high that except in cases where something is so egregiously wrong that it would cause a scandal if it wasn’t overturned, VAR will almost always go with the referee’s ruling on the pitch based on Webb’s new guidance. That includes many errors that are obvious to everyone viewing replays of the incident, including commentators, pundits, fans, club staff, and beyond. And even blindingly obvious, scandal-inducing errors are not immune to VAR’s deference to the referees, as we saw many times last season and this season.

All in the services of “not re-refereeing the game” or “undermining the authority of the officials on the pitch”—what exactly is the purpose of VAR if not to “re-referee the game”?

The “clear and obvious” rule, more than anything else (including the deeply flawed system for assessing offside), contributes to VAR falling quite a bit short of its stated purpose. And contributes to the general frustration and distrust from the fans.

VAR, in its current state, largely serves as merely a mechanism for gas lighting, with occasional incidents when it actually serves its purpose of increasing the consistency and quality of officiating (it certainly hasn’t helped improve consistency on the whole, given the wild shifts in enforcement and interpretation of rules from match to match, referee to referee, VAR to VAR).

 

[bluenova]

The “clear and obvious” rule effectively renders VAR inert, though, and allows for nearly the same opportunity for human error or manipulation that existed prior to it’s implementation.

The bar is so high that barring something being so egregiously wrong that it would cause a scandal if it wasn’t overturned, VAR will almost always go with the referee’s ruling on the pitch based on Webb’s new guidance. That includes many errors that are obvious to everyone viewing replays of the incident, commentators, pundits, fans, club staff, and beyond. And even blindingly obvious, scandal-inducing errors are not immune to VAR’s deference to the referees, as we saw many times last season and this season.

That rule, more than anything else (including the deeply flawed system for assessing offside), contributes to VAR falling quite short of its stated purpose. And contributes to the general frustration and distrust from the fans.

VAR, in its current state, largely serves as merely a mechanism for gas lighting.

Sure - but I was making a joke :)

 

[ancoats]

This proves my view on why VAR cheats, Line of sight and angles and the other side of the pitch view
Clearly well onside

 

[SebastianBlue]

Sure - but I was making a joke :)

No place for jokes in this thread!

 

[kaz7]

Well, this is one example.



You beat Bournemouth. There was nothing controversial. No major talking points or VAR.

All fans claim 'you watch them screw us over' and 99% of the time nothing happens. Obviously if you keep shouting 'watch them screw us over' a controversial officiating decision happens eventually. and then they feel justified.

Seems i live rent free in your head, lol. You still refuse to give me your opinion on yesterdays var effort

 

[SebastianBlue]

This proves my view on why VAR cheats, Line of sight and angles and the other side of the pitch view
Clearly well onside

To be fair, without a wider view, it is actually difficult to tell if that does show him to be clearly onside given the Coventry attacker was actually stepping away from the United goal and the United player was stepping toward it when the ball was played. That means the defender could be much closer to the United goal by the time the attacker gets on the passed ball.

Still, even so, I do think the video highlights the issues with the current offside assessment system (namely, how it can be manipulated in instances of very tight decisions).