General Election - 4th July 2024

[bluenova]

Fair point, in principle, if delivered correctly by the incoming Govt for example it could be a good thing ..

Labour are all about socialism (or where) so a project to focus minds on respect and consideration would be right up their alley..

Not Wumming btw.. I did 22 years in the military and yes, I learned to use a weapon but it taught me much much more…

You'd think if it's going to reach the people who could really benefit from a more disciplined lifestyle, then it's going to have to be compulsory for everyone.

Given cost savings have meant that the Tories version dropped from being a military based National Service, to a small percentage being military, to a small percentage getting some kind of weekend TA experience, I wonder whether the military is really ever going to on board with it. Even the pared down version was sold as the "peak" of the national service package, where people would compete to do it. If it ever did achieve that aim, then it's going to attract CV stuffers, not the people you want to reach.

I agree that plenty of young people could do with a broader horizon on life, but I just don't see how it could happen from scratch after all these years.

 

[bluenova]

The Duke of Edinburgh Award not been included in this debate?

Could be offered in more schools.

I'd be quite happy for the King and Prince of Wales to hand over 99% of their wealth to endow a huge expansion.

Great PR for the Royal family and they'll still be able to afford all the truffles they can eat.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Yeah, I didn't mind Cameron myself. As you say, he destroyed his own legacy but he must've been confident of Remain winning, otherwise he wouldn't have called the referendum in the first place. He totally underestimated the influence that huge swathes of the EU-hating media had on the general public.

Despite that and subsequently being out of politics for over 7 years, he's come back and still has more clout on the world stage than that drip Sunak!

His big mistake in relation to the referendum once he’d called it (and calling it was the biggest mistake of all) was heading up the Remain campaign himself along with George Osborne. The notion of associating a binary vote with the sitting PM, a Tory, turned a lot of people off voting Remain especially young voters whose absence from meaningful involvement was crucial in the outcome.

It was also a piss poor, insipid campaign once it got going.

Another mistake was painting the EU into a corner over those concessions.

I’m not sure he underestimated the reserves of antipathy towards the EU from certain quarters though. Arguably that’s why he called the referendum in the first place.

He was doubtless confident, and not without some justification. He’d led a pretty charmed political life up to that point, and must, like we all do when things are going well, started to think he was invincible. It’s a lesson for all of us, that we are one catastrophic decision away from fucking things up!

It was a catastrophic miscalculation and has caused untold and wholly unnecessary chaos. It must haunt him pretty much every waking moment when he looks at the devastation it has brought. We are just about to have the fifth PM since he resigned eight years ago. That’s the same number we had in 37 years up to his resignation.

The daft **** unleashed forces that could not be contained.

Anyway, better stop talking about..you know what…

 

[Bluemanc100]

Germany abolished National Service in 2011. It cost billions and for no appreciable benefit. People overlook that it will cost billions.

We spend billions on all sorts of batshit crazy ideas.... This just might work

But we're on the roller coaster ride regardless so what will be will be... I'm not confident at all in Starmer & Co but let's see where they take us

 

[Bluemanc100]

Did it teach you the military don't want thousands of people under their roof,and budget that don't want to be there for a year?

Obviously not.... But I don't think that teaching some of the feral kids we see on our streets some manners and respect would be a bad thing... If it's impossible to deliver then so be it...

 

[Bluemanc100]

You'd think if it's going to reach the people who could really benefit from a more disciplined lifestyle, then it's going to have to be compulsory for everyone.

Given cost savings have meant that the Tories version dropped from being a military based National Service, to a small percentage being military, to a small percentage getting some kind of weekend TA experience, I wonder whether the military is really ever going to on board with it. Even the pared down version was sold as the "peak" of the national service package, where people would compete to do it. If it ever did achieve that aim, then it's going to attract CV stuffers, not the people you want to reach.

I agree that plenty of young people could do with a broader horizon on life, but I just don't see how it could happen from scratch after all these years.

You may be right @bluenova ... It feels to me that the country is on a downward spiral but that's maybe because I'm getting to be a bit of a FOC...

 

[blueparrot]

Obviously not.... But I don't think that teaching some of the feral kids we see on our streets some manners and respect would be a bad thing... If it's impossible to deliver then so be it...

The old feral kids line, there have always been some badly behaved kids, guess what there always will be.

 

[BobKowalski]

We spend billions on all sorts of batshit crazy ideas.... This just might work

But we're on the roller coaster ride regardless so what will be will be... I'm not confident at all in Starmer & Co but let's see where they take us

Paying billions to compel kids to sit in nissan huts in the Outer Hebrides or as forced labour isn’t going to work. It appeals to the demographic who think kids ‘have it to easy’ and get a kick out of punishing them.

Kids today have already gone through a financial crisis, a two year quarantine, disrupted education and are being left with broken services, no freedom of movement as enjoyed by the youth of Europe and the chance of owning a home a distant dream. Oh, and fuck off huge University loans.

If you want conscription or national service how about we apply it to the over fifties who enjoyed none of the above and then shat over the kids. If any demographic could do with learning about ‘respect and community’ it’s the old fuckers.

 

[bluenova]

Paying billions to compel kids to sit in nissan huts in the Outer Hebrides or as forced labour isn’t going to work. It appeals to the demographic who think kids ‘have it to easy’ and get a kick out of punishing them.

Kids today have already gone through a financial crisis, a two year quarantine, disrupted education and are being left with broken services, no freedom of movement as enjoyed by the youth of Europe and the chance of owning a home a distant dream. Oh, and fuck off huge University loans.

If you want conscription or national service how about we apply it to the over fifties who enjoyed none of the above and then shat over the kids. If any demographic could do with learning about ‘respect and community’ it’s the old fuckers.

What we need is a new "Empire" of places that 18-25 year olds are desperate to go to.

If we could do a deal with Thailand and Magaluf, we'd probably get them to pay for part of the trip themselves.

 

[west didsblue]

His big mistake in relation to the referendum once he’d called it (and calling it was the biggest mistake of all) was heading up the Remain campaign himself along with George Osborne. The notion of associating a binary vote with the sitting PM, a Tory, turned a lot of people off voting Remain especially young voters whose absence from meaningful involvement was crucial in the outcome.

It was also a piss poor, insipid campaign once it got going.

Another mistake was painting the EU into a corner over those concessions.

I’m not sure he underestimated the reserves of antipathy towards the EU from certain quarters though. Arguably that’s why he called the referendum in the first place.

He was doubtless confident, and not without some justification. He’d led a pretty charmed political life up to that point, and must, like we all do when things are going well, started to think he was invincible. It’s a lesson for all of us, that we are one catastrophic decision away from fucking things up!

It was a catastrophic miscalculation and has caused untold and wholly unnecessary chaos. It must haunt him pretty much every waking moment when he looks at the devastation it has brought. We are just about to have the fifth PM since he resigned eight years ago. That’s the same number we had in 37 years up to his resignation.

The daft **** unleashed forces that could not be contained.

Anyway, better stop talking about..you know what…

The irony is that the Brexit vote was proposed in large part to stop the Conservative Party tearing itself apart. Look at what’s happening 9 years after that pledge in the 2015 manifesto!

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The irony is that the Brexit vote was proposed in large part to stop the Conservative Party tearing itself apart. Look at what’s happening 9 years after that pledge in the 2015 manifesto!

Yes, it was supposed to lance the boil. I wonder if it would have worked if the vote had gone the other way. Almost certainly not.

 

[Kompany Car]

The old feral kids line, there have always been some badly behaved kids, guess what there always will be.

Now I’m not an advocate of this national service rubbish but whilst there have always been badly behaved children, the evidence points to behaviour in general getting worse in terms of the level of violence involved and the number of children having challenging behaviour. Social media has normalised behaviours which were only seen in rare cases in the past. Kids copying the actions of others.

This however isn’t unique to the UK but also across most of the developed world. A quick search across the internet and you see articles from teachers not just in the UK, but also Australia, New Zealand, France and unsurprisingly the USA etc all saying the same thing.

 

[BrianW]

Poverty breeds violence and crime.
Read about the 19th-century 'scuttling' gangs in the shitty parts of Manchester.
Of course, it doesn't help that the criminal justice system is on life support. Due to - guess what? - Tory cuts. See also the Youth Service, Surestart, you name it.
Treat people like shite - 'welfare' cuts, poor NHS, poor schools, poor practically everything - and they will react in ways you don't like. What's more, the Church, which used to help with social control big time, is virtually out of business.
Oh, and lionising greed and acquisitiveness hasn't helped either. You see you're 'nothing' unless you have a big car, a big house, massive salary. All the stuff these kids can't hope to get legally.

 

[blue b4 the moon]

No easy answer the country is a fucking mess.

Sort out the roads/transport so people can actually move about in a reasonable time frame, get the NHS going the right way and pump some cash into law & order....it might cost a bit extra in tax but, if we can see some shoots of green it might be a start and worth it.

 

[Eccles Blue]

Honestly, it’s a very underrated way to vote. If everybody voted for the person they felt was competent, capable and represented their local interests then we would be in a much better state.

The problem we have is how many MPs occupy safe seats because people vote down party lines regardless of who the candidate is. Therefore many of them can do and say effectively whatever they want.

When in doubt, actually speak to your representatives.

If you can ever get hold of them or even know who is standing unless you can check online!
I haven’t had a single leaflet or notification as to who is standing. I went online to find out and then on to the websites. Some of the websites are ‘active’ some not.
If it weren’t for the fact that I would never not vote I’d give up this time. Complacency is the killer in my constituency unfortunately.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

If you can ever get hold of them or even know who is standing unless you can check online!
I haven’t had a single leaflet or notification as to who is standing. I went online to find out and then on to the websites. Some of the websites are ‘active’ some not.
If it weren’t for the fact that I would never not vote I’d give up this time. Complacency is the killer in my constituency unfortunately.

Yes I feel that, and given the lopsided polling, I imagine some of the traditionally not-so-safe seats are looking more like safe seats so may see less action.

I’ve had one candidate knock on my door. Labour. Given I’m in deep deep Tory land, I think that says a lot about the seats they’re focused on.

Unfortunately I was out when he came by, I caught him on the doorbell camera.

Priti Patel has put a few signs up and dropped a leaflet through my door - no Conservative Party logos on anything. Nearly all of her signs have been vandalised with Hitler moustaches.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

The old feral kids line, there have always been some badly behaved kids, guess what there always will be.

It's definitely got worse in the last 15 years.

No coincidence that over that period social services, education, youth services and support for struggling parents has been decimated, as has neighbourhood policing.

The babies of poor and vulnerable parents who had things like Sure Start centres taken off them are now teenagers.

 

[Eccles Blue]

Yes I feel that, and given the lopsided polling, I imagine some of the traditionally not-so-safe seats are looking more like safe seats so may see less action.

I’ve had one candidate knock on my door. Labour. Given I’m in deep deep Tory land, I think that says a lot about the seats they’re focused on.

Unfortunately I was out when he came by, I caught him on the doorbell camera.

Priti Patel has put a few signs up and dropped a leaflet through my door - no Conservative Party logos on anything. Nearly all of her signs have been vandalised with Hitler moustaches.

I've just been out and realised that the house on the main road which always, even for Local Elections, has a Labour Flagpole in the garden and posters in all upstairs and downstairs windows hasn't got any up at all this time. As I say complacency.

 

[blueparrot]

It's definitely got worse in the last 15 years.

No coincidence that over that period social services, education, youth services and support for struggling parents has been decimated, as has neighbourhood policing.

The babies of poor and vulnerable parents who had things like Sure Start centres taken off them are now teenagers.

I'm sure it has and I'm sure there's a correllation to the economy and social care / spending. While the line may fluctuate it's always been there at some level and always will be.Oliver Twist was as much a social commentry of the times as it was a period novel.

 

[Vic]

Good grief. We dismissed the national service idea as an unworkable expensive gimmick two weeks ago, and it's thrown the thread again.