PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

St Helens Blue (Exiled) said:
Irrefutable Evidence
Until I see anything else I will back the club/Khaldoon to the hilt.
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Look the fact is that you or I won't make any decisions. We don't know what the outcome will be. I hope and pray we are cleared but after over 6000 pages it is still unclear to me what the outcome will be. If I had to put money on it I would say we will win. But who knows.
 
Father Paul said:
Look the fact is that you or I won't make any decisions. We don't know what the outcome will be. I hope and pray we are cleared but after over 6000 pages it is still unclear to me what the outcome will be. If I had to put money on it I would say we will win. But who knows.
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Yesterday we lose,today we win ,tomorrow it will be 50/50
Friday is make your mind up time.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Are you sure? I haven't seen a rule that the PL has to act in good faith with the clubs, only that the clubs and its officials have to act in good faith with the PL and other clubs (rule B5) ....

There may be one, I just don't remember seeing it.
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whether there is a written rule or not surely the fact that there IS a written rule about all clubs acting in good faith would most certainly imply that the governing body would would and should act in good faith towards all its members otherwise it is not fit for purpose and you can add that to the other thousands of reasons why it isnt fit for purpose.
 
Like most people on here i hope and believe that our owners have done everything within the rules and that we will be fine when the hearing takes place, I think it is naive to the extreme to think that we havent been creative in our accounting at times (like every business) but this doesnt mean we have committed fraud.

I do however entertain doubts from time to time, when i do i just go onto youtube and look at the drone footage of the work taking place on the stadium. I cant see a situation where this work is undertaken if the club thought we were in any danger of significant punishment. There seems to have been a sea change of late and people are waking up to what is really happening.
 
Father Paul said:
I think people need to read and reflect rather than react. The point I made is in relation to a guilty verdict which is delivered and the punishment that is likely to result. I have as any sensible person should not reached a conclusion on the likely outcome. I hope that the Clubs blanket refusal to accept the validity of these charges and to protest innocence will result in a satisfactory outcome.
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Guilty of what?
 
salfordbluetrue said:
Was going to post something similar, cheers stopped me talking gibberish again :).
The evidence is in and being appraised, but the terminology and understanding of that is also being appraised, Good Faith being as vital as non cooperation. Lawton and Woolwich did not just score an own goal, they kicked the goalie in the head and got sent off.
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I hope our lawyers make this point, adding in the constant stream of lies uttered by the redshirts. Where’s the Good Faith?
 
dickie davies said:
I'm like you
Certainly creative accounting, such as the Fordham image rights company, but it's all been declared and open to scrutiny for years

Can you imagine the conversation being had
We believe that Manchester City's owner funded £35M of the £40M Etihad Airlines sponsorship in 2014
Etihad forwarded £40M from their accounts to Manchester City, but received this money from the Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund, who were subsidising the airline, and they in turn received £35M of the £40M from Sheikh Mansour
We demand access to Etihad's accounts, Abu Dhabi's Sovereign wealth fund accounts and Sheikh Mansour's personal bank accounts
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The new rules purport to make sponsors liable to open their books to the PL. FUCK OFF.
 
KS55 said:
Guilty of what?
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I do t know if there is evidence to back up the 115. I have stated that I think we will win the case but I must assume that despite everything said on here the authorities may not have wasted the last six years and believe they can convince the Panel that the charges are valid. Now if we lose the case we might be fucked regardless of whether you and I and thousands of other Blues think.I am not involved in the process obviously so I can't predict what will happen. Again I will state that I hope we win and win well
 
abu13 said:
Like most people on here i hope and believe that our owners have done everything within the rules and that we will be fine when the hearing takes place, I think it is naive to the extreme to think that we havent been creative in our accounting at times (like every business) but this doesnt mean we have committed fraud.

I do however entertain doubts from time to time, when i do i just go onto youtube and look at the drone footage of the work taking place on the stadium. I cant see a situation where this work is undertaken if the club thought we were in any danger of significant punishment. There seems to have been a sea change of late and people are waking up to what is really happening.
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Nope, not me.

I hope we’ve completely shattered the rules but covered our tracks so well that there’s absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.
 
Father Paul said:
My own view is that it is likely to be a huge points penalty introduced during next season or the 25/26 season. Probably enough to relegate us to the Championship but definitely sufficient to knock us out of Europe. I just don't think they will attempt to relegate us into oblivion.
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A huge points penalty? For what? Get a grip man...
 
Father Paul said:
I do t know if there is evidence to back up the 115. I have stated that I think we will win the case but I must assume that despite everything said on here the authorities may not have wasted the last six years and believe they can convince the Panel that the charges are valid. Now if we lose the case we might be fucked regardless of whether you and I and thousands of other Blues think.I am not involved in the process obviously so I can't predict what will happen. Again I will state that I hope we win and win well
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You are still not saying what you think we are guilty of in your punishment scenario. “115” doesn’t cut it, you have to disaggregate otherwise it’s just bunkum. Given the size of your putative punishment you must be thinking of those charges which rely on the PL showing we have falsified our accounts. So the PL wouldn’t spend six years chasing a chimera, you say. Thus you are implying a massive conspiracy of the club, its auditors, the sponsors and their auditors and total failure of due diligence by Silver Lake. It is just so much less likely than the PL giving in to pressure from the redshirts as the alternative explanation for the PLs pursuit.
Khaldoon and Soriano are both on record as saying it is bullshit. Are they among the people you branded as stupid for coming to the conclusion that we will be cleared? Or do you think we will get a massive points deduction for the Fordham business? Or not cutting the grass? Frankly you have not analysed anything, you have just come up with a shout. That’s ok, but don’t paint yourself as the only person to think seriously about the issue.
 
KS55 said:
You are still not saying what you think we are guilty of in your punishment scenario. “115” doesn’t cut it, you have to disaggregate otherwise it’s just bunkum. Given the size of your putative punishment you must be thinking of those charges which rely on the PL showing we have falsified our accounts. So the PL wouldn’t spend six years chasing a chimera, you say. Thus you are implying a massive conspiracy of the club, its auditors, the sponsors and their auditors and total failure of due diligence by Silver Lake. It is just so much less likely than the PL giving in to pressure from the redshirts as the alternative explanation for the PLs pursuit.
Khaldoon and Soriano are both on record as saying it is bullshit. Are they among the people you branded as stupid for coming to the conclusion that we will be cleared? Or do you think we will get a massive points deduction for the Fordham business? Or not cutting the grass? Frankly you have not analysed anything, you have just come up with a shout. That’s ok, but don’t paint yourself as the only person to think seriously about the issue.
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Zzzz
 
KS55 said:
You are still not saying what you think we are guilty of in your punishment scenario. “115” doesn’t cut it, you have to disaggregate otherwise it’s just bunkum. Given the size of your putative punishment you must be thinking of those charges which rely on the PL showing we have falsified our accounts. So the PL wouldn’t spend six years chasing a chimera, you say. Thus you are implying a massive conspiracy of the club, its auditors, the sponsors and their auditors and total failure of due diligence by Silver Lake. It is just so much less likely than the PL giving in to pressure from the redshirts as the alternative explanation for the PLs pursuit.
Khaldoon and Soriano are both on record as saying it is bullshit. Are they among the people you branded as stupid for coming to the conclusion that we will be cleared? Or do you think we will get a massive points deduction for the Fordham business? Or not cutting the grass? Frankly you have not analysed anything, you have just come up with a shout. That’s ok, but don’t paint yourself as the only person to think seriously about the issue.
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Tbf to the guy, he was just responding to another guy who thought the sanction if we were to be found guilty could be relegation, by saying even if we were found guilty it is more likely, in his opinion, to only be a points deduction. Not sure he deserves to be getting all the abuse he is getting.

Other than to say, I had hoped all these "if the club is guilty, they deserve this or that sanction" discussions would have stopped after the first hundred pages of this thread when more knowledgeable posters had explained just how difficult it will be to prove these allegations. I get that lawyers can't be definitive due to their professional reputation and the "you never know" nature of legal cases. But I don't have that problem. There isn't a snowflake's chance in hell the PL can prove the filing erroneous accounts allegations, imho. Not a chance.
 
Father Paul said:
I do t know if there is evidence to back up the 115. I have stated that I think we will win the case but I must assume that despite everything said on here the authorities may not have wasted the last six years and believe they can convince the Panel that the charges are valid. Now if we lose the case we might be fucked regardless of whether you and I and thousands of other Blues think.I am not involved in the process obviously so I can't predict what will happen. Again I will state that I hope we win and win well
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Your original post did rather more than postulate that the authorities had not wasted their time. It put forward the Jordanesque theory that City had, in fact, only been acquitted by CAS because evidence which did exist had not been produced, and that this evidence is convincing. Thus our accounts are fraudulent. Do you really believe this? Do you really entertain the possibility?
 
mcfcphil said:
Nope, not me.

I hope we’ve completely shattered the rules but covered our tracks so well that there’s absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.
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I have a certain sympathy with your attitude but on the whole I hope that our club has shown the cartel that it doesn't matter what rules they try to introduce City will always come out on top because we just do things better - we win by doing things "the City way".
 
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