Racism in Football

[mexico1970]

I'm waiting for someone to sing the "Always the victims" chant. :)

In Phlegmish :)

 

[freshie]

On this particular case, it is clear for anyone that understands the idiosyncrasy of Argentinian football chants, that the players aren't trying to be racists. If anything, it's a song related more to colonialism than racism. Either way, the song is ignorant and still has transphobe lyrics (which, again, I doubt any of the players singing it pays any attention to it).

I'm not trying to excuse the players, just giving you context. You can't judge the actions of a group of people based on your own set of principles.

Well if they aren't trying they're doing a fucking good job of being racist. The song wasn't aimed at you so you have absolutely no right to say that it is or isn't racist. The fact is that many of his French teammates found the song to be racist and it is absolutely their prerogative to deem it as such.

The lyrics to the song imply that because the French players are of African descent they can't be classed as French, despite being born in France and having French passports, and questions the legitimacy of their World Cup win.
If you can't see how that comes across as racist then you are part of the problem

Trust the Argentine to be an apologist for his compatriots' wrongdoing

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I see both perspectives, and you are right in that it works both ways, didn't Mahrez train at Clarefontaine and grow up in Paris but represented Algeria internationally?

Yep. 200 of the 630 players registered to play in the Africa Cup of Nations weren't born in Africa, and of those, France was the most common country of birth with a whopping 104. So basically 1 in 6 of the players from their entire continent's top competition was born in France, yet they're accused of 'stealing' African players. Morocco only had nine players actually born in Morocco, and it was a similar story in the last World Cup, but nobody was claiming that Morocco only got to the semi-finals because of European players.

 

[domalino]

Fuck me what a horrendous take

You think it’s more likely the players were deliberately filming themselves singing it to appeal to the Argentine fans to get their support? Because that’s the theory I replied to after already making clear I thought it was racist and they’ll all get deserved bans.

But yeah, I still think it’s more likely they’ve just normalised the song and don’t think about its meaning than that this was part of a deliberate scheme to win over their racist fans.

If you think the ultra conspiracy is a better take, I guess that’s your right.

 

[domalino]

Lol, I'm guessing she's had too many beers also.

I love how you’ve completely reduced what I said to the the fleeting mention that alcohol was involved, which was a minuscule part of my post and very obviously not the argument I was making.

Completely dishonest, but then again, I need to remind myself I’m replying to someone who thinks it’s part of a conspiracy to win their fans support (despite winning 4 tournaments in a row).

 

[Kippax Street 1880]

It's also a bit pathetic when someone is suddenly claimed by the country of their ancestors because they happen to be good at something. Like all of Japan suddenly claiming Kazuo Ishiguro when he got the Nobel Prize for Literature, or Naomi Osaka when she won the US Open, when plenty of them wouldn't give the time of day to a "hafu' normally.

Just reminded me of that classic Lucy Liu scene from Kill Bill where she decapitated the Yakuza for disrespecting her heritage that paragraph!

 

[domalino]

Toni Kroos has continued his mask slipping fall from grace by promoting domestic abuser Alex Zverev to be Germany’s flag carrier at the olympics less than a week after telling German TV he was scared for his daughter to walk around in Germany because of all the immigrants.

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

I love how you’ve completely reduced what I said to the the fleeting mention that alcohol was involved, which was a minuscule part of my post and very obviously not the argument I was making.

Completely dishonest, but then again, I need to remind myself I’m replying to someone who thinks it’s part of a conspiracy to win their fans support (despite winning 4 tournaments in a row).

I was talking about the players that played for clubs with a strong fan base of fascist ultras.

Besides fans or not, I think the VP stance on this matter shows you all you need to know. @Crooked_rain @better dead than red and my posts pointed at Argentina having a history of racism but in all your wisdom, you brushed it aside and chalked it down as the players having a "jolly, drunk moment", you know, just "boys being boys".

 

[domalino]

Well if they aren't trying they're doing a fucking good job of being racist. The song wasn't aimed at you so you have absolutely no right to say that it is or isn't racist. The fact is that many of his French teammates found the song to be racist and it is absolutely their prerogative to deem it as such.

The lyrics to the song imply that because the French players are of African descent they can't be classed as French, despite being born in France and having French passports, and questions the legitimacy of their World Cup win.
If you can't see how that comes across as racist then you are part of the problem

Trust the Argentine to be an apologist for his compatriots' wrongdoing

The song is racist, it’s not even a point of opinion, it’s just flat out clear as day racism.

 

[domalino]

in all your wisdom, you brushed it aside as the players having a "jolly, drunk moment", you know, just "boys being boys".

Yeah like I said, completely intellectually dishonest and now you’ve upgraded it to an outright lie.

I didn’t write it off as boys being boys, I put up a different theory as to why otherwise not racist people might find themselves singing a racist song and then post it publicly.

You think they posted it to win over the fans who they already have the full and unconditional support of after an unprecedented few years of success, I think it’s more likely because the songs has become normalised to them to the point where they didn’t see anything wrong with singing it publicly.

You’ve also obviously decided that me saying “they’re probably not racist or trying to win over racists, they just got carried away singing a song they’ve heard nonstop for 2 years without thinking what it’s really saying lyrically” to be a full endorsement of them singing it, despite my making it completely clear I thought it abhorrent and they all deserved bans.

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

Well if they aren't trying they're doing a fucking good job of being racist. The song wasn't aimed at you so you have absolutely no right to say that it is or isn't racist. The fact is that many of his French teammates found the song to be racist and it is absolutely their prerogative to deem it as such.

The lyrics to the song imply that because the French players are of African descent they can't be classed as French, despite being born in France and having French passports, and questions the legitimacy of their World Cup win.
If you can't see how that comes across as racist then you are part of the problem

Trust the Argentine to be an apologist for his compatriots' wrongdoing

That's something I find funny with the media these days, people trying to tell a targeted group when they can and can't show outrage.

It reminds me of when Trump's team said his mugshot and new line of sneaker shoes made him more attractive to black voters. Most black americans said they had nothing in common with those things as only a percentage of their community had criminal records and that they were going to vote people based on policies and not their sneakers, It seemed like a reasonable point of view, but oh no, the Republicans weren't having that, they instead accused black americans of faking outrage as everyone knows "they love sneakers", wtf!

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

Yeah like I said, completely intellectually dishonest and now you’ve upgraded it to an outright lie.

I didn’t write it off as boys being boys, I put up a different theory as to why otherwise not racist people might find themselves singing a racist song and then post it publicly.

You think they posted it to win over the fans who they already have the full and unconditional support of after an unprecedented few years of success, I think it’s more likely because the songs has become normalised to them to the point where they didn’t see anything wrong with singing it publicly.

You’ve also obviously decided that me saying “they’re probably not racist or trying to win over racists, they just got carried away singing a song they’ve heard nonstop for 2 years without thinking what it’s really saying lyrically” to be a full endorsement of them singing it, despite my making it completely clear I thought it abhorrent and they all deserved bans.

If they had normalised this song and assumed that they had done nothing wrong then the response from the VP would have been different, as she would be interested in knowing what they might have done wrong, instead she remains defiant and that should tell you all you need to know.

Most posters here have tried to make it clear to you that Argentines are very well aware of the derogatory nature of this particular song, after all they lost their minds when the Germans sang the "Gaucho dance" song. I believe one of the posters on this thread has close ties to people from that region and has also commented on how Argentina is notorious for this type of behaviour.

At this point I'm not sure if there's any reason going on as you seem to have made your mind up about this, maybe due to the fact that we have a history of having quality Argentine players here or maybe you just have a soft spot for them, I feel like you are entitled to your opinion but trying to "blame this on the alcohol" is just being dishonest.

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

Toni Kroos has continued his mask slipping fall from grace by promoting domestic abuser Alex Zverev to be Germany’s flag carrier at the olympics less than a week after telling German TV he was scared for his daughter to walk around in Germany because of all the immigrants.

I don't know if its just me but Kross always seemed a bit off

After the 2018 World Cup I said that I didn't like the way in which Mesut Ozil [handled himself as he retired from international football], and then [because of that] I was a Nazi for quite a lot of people," Kroos said at an event with German president Frank-Walter Steinmeier on the subject of combating cyber-bullying.

"Blond hair, blue eyes, it all fit for a lot of people.

"I managed to get over it. Anyone can hide behind a fake profile and then insult other people with almost no problem

Isn't it interesting that they didn't even think about inviting Ozil, who had a legitimate complaint about the media and online community bullying him based on his ancestry, they brilliantly flipped the narrative and made Kross the victim.

 

[Vienna_70]

Bloody disgusting!

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

A friend of mine was talking about this today. I said I thought if it was said as quoted it was distasteful. He replied by saying I wasn’t saying that when I was slagging off Jack Charlton’s recruitment policy for the Republic of Ireland in the 90s. I said I thought it was different. But is it or am I in denial?

 

[Vienna_70]

A friend of mine was talking about this today. I said I thought if it was said as quoted it was distasteful. He replied by saying I wasn’t saying that when I was slagging off Jack Charlton’s recruitment policy for the Republic of Ireland in the 90s. I said I thought it was different. But is it or am I in denial?

I think it’s different, as most, if not all of Big Jack,s recruits were from the British Isles.

 

[mexico1970]

A friend of mine was talking about this today. I said I thought if it was said as quoted it was distasteful. He replied by saying I wasn’t saying that when I was slagging off Jack Charlton’s recruitment policy for the Republic of Ireland in the 90s. I said I thought it was different. But is it or am I in denial?

International football just isn't what it was, you're probably right and so is your mate.

 

[better dead than red]

Bloody disgusting!

And simply sleazy politician talk to shift the narrative. Argentina has been an independent nation for over 200 years. The "colonial country" talk is to just try and whip up support for bad behaviour.

Do the Canadians say that? Do the Americans? I don't think they do. I could be mistaken but I do not recall hearing such.

 

[mexico1970]

Do the Canadians say that? Do the Americans? I don't think they do. I could be mistaken but I do not recall hearing such.

To ne fair mate most of that shit started in America and Canada is now the worst for it.

 

[better dead than red]

To ne fair mate most of that shit started in America and Canada is now the worst for it.

Colonialism or slavery? Racism? Certainly none of those things started in America if we are being honest.

America's slave system was by any measure an awful thing. It was awful when it started when the colonies were part of Great Britain and was still awful after American independence. There were certainly many European nations willing to supply the American slave holders with new bodies.

One thing the American government got right was when they decided to end slavery they didn't pay wealthy individuals for the loss of their "property" like the British government did. It was more like, "tough shit." You don't own these people anymore.

When will Britain face up to its crimes against humanity?

The long read: After the abolition of slavery, Britain paid millions in compensation – but every penny of it went to slave owners, and nothing to those they enslaved. We must stop overlooking the brutality of British history

www.theguardian.com

How Britain is facing up to its hidden slavery history

Several stories are bringing attention to the nation’s involvement in the slave trade, including recent play The Whip. Holly Williams asks why they are so important to tell now.

www.bbc.com

Fact check: United Kingdom finished paying off debts to slave-owning families in 2015

The UK Treasury continued to compensate the descendants of slave owners for decades after the abolition of slavery in the empire.

www.usatoday.com

After the slaves were freed, America certainly had racial issues that weren't handled well at all. I'm not having a go at you by any means. I'm just uncertain what the Americans started with regards to colonialism that made Canada worse off?

I do know Benedict Arnold, before he left the Colonial Army and became a tool of and eventually an officer in the British Army wanted to invade Canada and make it part of America. I'm not certain he would have succeeded. I don't think the British Canadians were too fussed to leave their current situation. Moreover, Arnold had a tendency to overvalue himself and his abilities.