PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

I completely agree - I am starting to get really frustrated at the shit us fans are having to deal with … over a prolonged period of time. And you get very little back from the owners on this … I appreciate their position but sometimes it feels like they could do more to protect the fans.

I tend to agree with you, it use to get be down it really did.
But honestly since I adopted the 'fuck'um attitude life is so much better.
I really don't give a fuck what other fans or the scum press/media think or say.
This season I've even had 'this means 4' on the back of my City shirt lol.

I think as fans we have all had low points about this shit.

I trust our owners 100%
 
Not only cheats, if they find us guilty of the most serious charges they would be called fraudsters.

I have to admit that the longer this goes on the more I have this perverse hope that they do find us guilty, just to see the inevitable shit storm that it would produce. There is absolutely no way that our owners would just accept this.

And lets face it, no opposition fans or the media will ever truly accept our innocence.

Fuck them all.
After CAS, several commentators said they cleared us due to AbuDhabi’s commercial heft, but I can see no reason why that would be so. A UK hearing might be different, but I doubt it. That would require Thatcher levels of judicial interference.
 
My feelings on this are exactly the same as they were before the latest round of media hit job pieces in the Athletic by the buck toothed rag and other outlets.

1. Etihad
I believe they have nothing but the emails and all of those (including the full run, so some not used by UEFA referred to by "Magic Twat" on X as some kind of silver bullet) are insufficient on their own to prove the actual conduct they partly infer took place. City and Etihad Bank statements, accounts and documents with additional testimony from senior management involved in the transactions of both parties, acting as rebuttal evidence, sufficiently prove the monies came from Etihad central funds and ADEC - NOT ADUG.
54 of the charges fail if the PL cannot prove this.

2. Etisalat
The subject of Piers Morgans' wet dream youtube programme and supposed mystery man and the loaned 30 million is a red herring. The monies are properly accounted for in everyone's expense and receivables (incoming and outgoing accounts) as a loan from an intermediary as a method of up front sponsorship payment when only pre contract agreements were in place. In any event without proof of fraud these will AGAIN be outside any limitation period. This time by the 6 year limitation applied by UK law, not 5 year UEFA rule.

3. Aabar / AD Tourist Board
Prior to the 2014 UEFA NDA sanction agreement (the pinch) these 2nd tier two sponsorships were alleged by UEFA to be above FMV. i believe also alleged by UEFA to be related parties. Whilst City are on record dissenting those UEFA opinions the sponsorship values were adjusted down and accepted going forward. Nothing to see here and no indication the PL are interested in either sponsorship value.

4. Fordham Ltd (image rights)
A temporary company vehicle created to generate approx 25 million income by the centralisation and purchase of player image rights from City when we desperately needed supplementary revenue. Like selling a hotel to yourself, it was creative accounting to generate income. There was no skullduggary it was a loophole we used to boost the coffers so as not to fail the 3 year deficit allowance. It was shut down subsequently and image rights given / sold back to club or players. HMRC seemed happy it wasn't used to evade tax as was the case at other clubs, so again, seemingly nothing to see here.

5. Mancini / Toure - remuneration
The PL have to prove that City did not declare the money paid to Mancini, 1.75 mill per annum, by the Abu Dhabi football club Al Jazeera Sports Cultural Club through Sparkleglow Ltd (a Mancini owned company) arranged by ADUG was part of his City remuneration package. If there are separate employment contracts whose obligations are agreed and met by both parties it is difficult to see how it can be proved by the PL. There also seems some confusion as to if the PL are trying to a) include this remuneration money as part of the charge of "failing to submit accurate fincial information" for those years it was paid up to 2013. Clearly it would appear these annual amounts, if proven to be such as alleged, would likely be insufficient to create a "false financial picture" of the accounts on their own.
Or b) simply imply it was omitted from Mancinis full salary declarations by City which is a breach of a current rule in the PL handbook but unsure if it breaches such a rule, if proven, from 2011- 2013.
The inclusion of Toure seems somewhat of an anomaly here and I'm unsure where the link to him comes from the list of PL charges. It seems to come from the media in the wake of the allegations however not all media outlets include Toure in any overview of the charges. Where he does appear it seems a generic inclusion in accusations of image rights payments although his agent, Seluk, like Mancini, deny both any wrongdoing or that they have been approached by the PL for either a statement or comments.
The whole thing seems a stretch by the PL and considering the sums involved in comparison to the main charges a spaghetti against the wall overreach.

6. None co-operation
Due to the seriousness of these charges City have quite rightly argued every point of law where doubt has arisen. For one, City appealed that the Independant Panel was not the appropriate venue for such serious matters to be decided. Although the courts have ruled against City in most, if not all our appeals, City have clearly laid a marker that they will not take any adverse decision lightly. However no appeal for court decisions can be deemed to be none co-operation. There are other Internet myths propagated by the likes of Simon Jordan that City appealed the inclusion of Murray Rosen on the panel as he is an Arsenal supporter and Season Ticket holder. Made all the more ridiculous by the fact that Citys primary advocate KC, Lord Pannick is also an Arsenal fan and supporter.
City say they have co-operated by the sheer volume of material supplied to the PL that rebutts their allegations but the details of alleged none co-operation by the PL are not listed and each (35 at least) will be argued out in front of the panel and it will be for them to decide such matters.
In any event if in some matters City have been none co-operative it will have been on legal advice for good reason and we would have to face the financial penalty for so doing. There is no sporting advantage from such breaches therefore no sporting sanction (points reduction etc) can be attributed to those charges.

So in summing up I am unmoved from my original position which I took some time ago that I am confident that the serious charges are unlikely to be proven and the other matters seem wishy washy at best. We'll all have to wait and see.
I believe our Chairman and Chief Exec when they say we've done nothing wrong.

If we come out of this relatively unscathed as I suspect, I want some fucking heads on sticks, starting with that **** Masters.
We should be relentless in going after media wankers who want to continue the no smoke without fire narrative. I'd like to see us make an example of a gobshite like Collymore or Aldridge even Goldbridge (yes you Brent) who can't keep their traps shut and think they are beyond reach.
This whole fiasco has been a media witchunt, an enormous smear campaign against the club and its fans over 10 years. Let's not get mad, let's get even!
I laughed at the end. All very judicial and sensible arguments followed by the bathos of heads on sticks.
“Mr. Chairman, we respectfully submit that the main charges remain unproved, the other charges are de minimis and we ask for the heads of these bastards on fucking sticks.”
 
Looked again at this charge in light of some things yesterday

1723969951309.png

regarding "the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager"

None of Q7/Q8/P7/P8 required anything but disclosure of the managers contract (example here) - the rule did not say "full details" of manager remuneration/contracts (plural). It said merely:

1723970370379.png

It did not require disclosure of all agreements a shareholder may have directly or indirectly with the manager. That came in 21/22 in a new rule presumably because it was accepted that the drafting before did not capture such agreements.
1723970765089.png
In highly unique Mancini (hmmm) scenario, it is also interesting to consider the 1999-2004 saga between Ferguson and, shareholder, Magnier. Because in 2004, Ferguson entered into a £2.5m (net) settlement https://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/mar/09/newsstory.manchesterunited with the then 29% shareholder in United. This payment to the manager was never disclosed in United's accounts even though it would have represented approximately 8-10% of United's entire wage bill (grossed up). I guess the PL will want to go back and charge United if they prevail on Mancini...what?
1723970606800.png
 
Looked again at this charge in light of some things yesterday

View attachment 128574

regarding "the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager"

None of Q7/Q8/P7/P8 required anything but disclosure of the managers contract (example here) - the rule did not say "full details" of manager remuneration/contracts (plural). It said merely:

View attachment 128576

It did not require disclosure of all agreements a shareholder may have directly or indirectly with the manager. That came in 21/22 in a new rule presumably because it was accepted that the drafting before did not capture such agreements.
View attachment 128578
In highly unique Mancini (hmmm) scenario, it is also interesting to consider the 1999-2004 saga between Ferguson and, shareholder, Magnier. Because in 2004, Ferguson entered into a £2.5m (net) settlement https://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/mar/09/newsstory.manchesterunited with the then 29% shareholder in United. This payment to the manager was never disclosed in United's accounts even though it would have represented approximately 8-10% of United's entire wage bill (grossed up). I guess the PL will want to go back and charge United if they prevail on Mancini...what?
View attachment 128577

Insightful and interesting post as always Stefan - very much enjoy listening to you in TS.
 
Looked again at this charge in light of some things yesterday

View attachment 128574

regarding "the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager"

None of Q7/Q8/P7/P8 required anything but disclosure of the managers contract (example here) - the rule did not say "full details" of manager remuneration/contracts (plural). It said merely:

View attachment 128576

It did not require disclosure of all agreements a shareholder may have directly or indirectly with the manager. That came in 21/22 in a new rule presumably because it was accepted that the drafting before did not capture such agreements.
View attachment 128578
In highly unique Mancini (hmmm) scenario, it is also interesting to consider the 1999-2004 saga between Ferguson and, shareholder, Magnier. Because in 2004, Ferguson entered into a £2.5m (net) settlement https://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/mar/09/newsstory.manchesterunited with the then 29% shareholder in United. This payment to the manager was never disclosed in United's accounts even though it would have represented approximately 8-10% of United's entire wage bill (grossed up). I guess the PL will want to go back and charge United if they prevail on Mancini...what?
View attachment 128577
A neat comparison with Ferguson. Maybe our team will use it.
 
Looked again at this charge in light of some things yesterday

View attachment 128574

regarding "the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager"

None of Q7/Q8/P7/P8 required anything but disclosure of the managers contract (example here) - the rule did not say "full details" of manager remuneration/contracts (plural). It said merely:

View attachment 128576

It did not require disclosure of all agreements a shareholder may have directly or indirectly with the manager. That came in 21/22 in a new rule presumably because it was accepted that the drafting before did not capture such agreements.
View attachment 128578
In highly unique Mancini (hmmm) scenario, it is also interesting to consider the 1999-2004 saga between Ferguson and, shareholder, Magnier. Because in 2004, Ferguson entered into a £2.5m (net) settlement https://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/mar/09/newsstory.manchesterunited with the then 29% shareholder in United. This payment to the manager was never disclosed in United's accounts even though it would have represented approximately 8-10% of United's entire wage bill (grossed up). I guess the PL will want to go back and charge United if they prevail on Mancini...what?
View attachment 128577
We can pull all of this stuff together, we can lay it out in front of them and provide details but what is the point.
The Premier League have us guilty as charged, the media definitely have us guilty as charged as do half the usual suspects in the league.
There is nothing else to point out or to highlight that will change anyone's mind and the thing is there will be something else to beat us with once this is settled.
 
We can pull all of this stuff together, we can lay it out in front of them and provide details but what is the point.
The Premier League have us guilty as charged, the media definitely have us guilty as charged as do half the usual suspects in the league.
There is nothing else to point out or to highlight that will change anyone's mind and the thing is there will be something else to beat us with once this is settled.
We aren’t presenting our case to the premier league or the media though. Those aren’t who we need to convince.
 
I tend to agree with you, it use to get be down it really did.
But honestly since I adopted the 'fuck'um attitude life is so much better.
I really don't give a fuck what other fans or the scum press/media think or say.
This season I've even had 'this means 4' on the back of my City shirt lol.

I think as fans we have all had low points about this shit.

I trust our owners 100%
we all do but the PL have no morals; they & their so called independent panel are corrupt; & they will do whatever it takes to win
 
Looked again at this charge in light of some things yesterday

View attachment 128574

regarding "the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager"

None of Q7/Q8/P7/P8 required anything but disclosure of the managers contract (example here) - the rule did not say "full details" of manager remuneration/contracts (plural). It said merely:

View attachment 128576

It did not require disclosure of all agreements a shareholder may have directly or indirectly with the manager. That came in 21/22 in a new rule presumably because it was accepted that the drafting before did not capture such agreements.
View attachment 128578
In highly unique Mancini (hmmm) scenario, it is also interesting to consider the 1999-2004 saga between Ferguson and, shareholder, Magnier. Because in 2004, Ferguson entered into a £2.5m (net) settlement https://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/mar/09/newsstory.manchesterunited with the then 29% shareholder in United. This payment to the manager was never disclosed in United's accounts even though it would have represented approximately 8-10% of United's entire wage bill (grossed up). I guess the PL will want to go back and charge United if they prevail on Mancini...what?
View attachment 128577

Fucking hilarious isn’t it & not one of the sycophants who scan these pages will print it despite being handed an exclusive.
 
As the Season opens I really am struggling to raise any enthusiasm for it.
The shadow of this enquiry has sucked the joy out of football in general as it becomes apparent how deep the dislike of our club has penetrated the sport thanks to the the poisonous drip drip drip of media venom against us . Fans of the big 4 to the lowliest club giving us shit about how we stole all our trophies and should be condemned to the lower leagues. I speak to people I would consider rational human beings but they too have been brainwashed by the constant undermining of Manchester City FC.
We are the bastard prince never to be recognised for the power we fought for.
Only a total acquittal will clear our name and legacy - we know that is never going to happen and anything less will hang around us like a bad stink for years as all our achievements are forever tarnished by this campaign of hate.
We usurped the cartel and will never be forgiven .We challenged a corrupt system designed to protect them and throw clubs like City an occasional scrap from the top table,
I suspect we may have had to bend rules because there was no other way to force our way into a position to take on the mafia family of legacy clubs.
The media and the League are still their attack dogs and will never give us a moments peace.
So no forgive me for not being enthused at season 2024/5 and what we may or may not achieve.
 
Looked again at this charge in light of some things yesterday

View attachment 128574

regarding "the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager"

None of Q7/Q8/P7/P8 required anything but disclosure of the managers contract (example here) - the rule did not say "full details" of manager remuneration/contracts (plural). It said merely:

View attachment 128576

It did not require disclosure of all agreements a shareholder may have directly or indirectly with the manager. That came in 21/22 in a new rule presumably because it was accepted that the drafting before did not capture such agreements.
View attachment 128578
In highly unique Mancini (hmmm) scenario, it is also interesting to consider the 1999-2004 saga between Ferguson and, shareholder, Magnier. Because in 2004, Ferguson entered into a £2.5m (net) settlement https://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/mar/09/newsstory.manchesterunited with the then 29% shareholder in United. This payment to the manager was never disclosed in United's accounts even though it would have represented approximately 8-10% of United's entire wage bill (grossed up). I guess the PL will want to go back and charge United if they prevail on Mancini...what?
View attachment 128577
Learn a lot (I think) from the contributions from @slbsn in here and elsewhere. Even if we're found "guilty" (e.g. on the 'non-co-operation' charges), his public contributions have helped me push back on Blues-baiters, and given me hope!
Thankyou!
 
Looked again at this charge in light of some things yesterday

View attachment 128574

regarding "the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager"

None of Q7/Q8/P7/P8 required anything but disclosure of the managers contract (example here) - the rule did not say "full details" of manager remuneration/contracts (plural). It said merely:

View attachment 128576

It did not require disclosure of all agreements a shareholder may have directly or indirectly with the manager. That came in 21/22 in a new rule presumably because it was accepted that the drafting before did not capture such agreements.
View attachment 128578
In highly unique Mancini (hmmm) scenario, it is also interesting to consider the 1999-2004 saga between Ferguson and, shareholder, Magnier. Because in 2004, Ferguson entered into a £2.5m (net) settlement https://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/mar/09/newsstory.manchesterunited with the then 29% shareholder in United. This payment to the manager was never disclosed in United's accounts even though it would have represented approximately 8-10% of United's entire wage bill (grossed up). I guess the PL will want to go back and charge United if they prevail on Mancini...what?
View attachment 128577
Unless I've miss reading it they'll just deny it and it'll be swept under carpet and filed under too far back to investigate
 
We can pull all of this stuff together, we can lay it out in front of them and provide details but what is the point.
The Premier League have us guilty as charged, the media definitely have us guilty as charged as do half the usual suspects in the league.
There is nothing else to point out or to highlight that will change anyone's mind and the thing is there will be something else to beat us with once this is settled.

Yeah, no.
 
6. None co-operation
City say they have co-operated by the sheer volume of material supplied to the PL that rebutts their allegations but the details of alleged none co-operation by the PL are not listed and each (35 at least) will be argued out in front of the panel and it will be for them to decide such matters.
In any event if in some matters City have been none co-operative it will have been on legal advice for good reason and we would have to face the financial penalty for so doing. There is no sporting advantage from such breaches therefore no sporting sanction (points reduction etc) can be attributed to those charges.
You must have missed my post from the other day. We can only go off past charges of non co-operation and there's only been one, Evertons. They were found guilty of it and were given a 4 point penalty deduction for it. Remember the commission said in the Everton's case that a financial penalty is not appropriate for rich teams only sporting sanctions will be considered (sounds like discrimination if you ask me). That was for Everton imagine how rich they consider City to be. Everton managed to get the 4 points back on appeal due to not actually being charged for it in the first place. This was a major fuck up from the Premier League and the original commission but I question whether they did this for preparation for our case (tin foil hat stuff maybe). So make no mistake about it if we're found guilty on the non coperation charges we will be deducted points it's just a question of how many.
 
we all do but the PL have no morals; they & their so called independent panel are corrupt; & they will do whatever it takes to win

Whilst that thought does linger in my head. Agree the pl is bent no doubt about that.
But when you look at things with a calm head, the thought of serious business people willing to risk their reputations for little City doesnt make sence. These aren't just serious business people in their own country but on the world stage.
They have invested billions into the UK, Etihad Airways were really smart in sponsor of City both companies have grown because of this.

The pl is run by small fry people who don't understand big business. Masters is totally out of his depth, 5th choice for the job after being vetted by dippers and rags.

Part of me thinks the pl HAVE to find City guilty because if they don't the damage to the pl could be final. Have the pl really gone ahead even after CAS because the 3 red tops +1 have wanted this ?
If so it shows how weak the chairman of the pl is. But he was vetted by two of those clubs.

The American owners are a real threat to our game. They take money out of the game, they don't invest much into the clubs. They want a closed shop league. They want games played in American.

The one thing that does confuse me is that other fans can't see this manager.

I believe in our owner and our club, we are hated because our owners are not white American, it is that simple.

This non cooperation shit is farcical, who can you give our all your books and information when you know its going straight to the 3 red tops +1. How ?

The pl do 'kick it out' in October, the pl shirt have kick out racism of the shirts. But the pl do fuck all to stop racism aimed at clubs and club owners.

I believe City are 100% innocent do I believe the IC will agree with me 50/50. I don't trust the pl and I don't trust an IC.
 
As the Season opens I really am struggling to raise any enthusiasm for it.
The shadow of this enquiry has sucked the joy out of football in general as it becomes apparent how deep the dislike of our club has penetrated the sport thanks to the the poisonous drip drip drip of media venom against us . Fans of the big 4 to the lowliest club giving us shit about how we stole all our trophies and should be condemned to the lower leagues. I speak to people I would consider rational human beings but they too have been brainwashed by the constant undermining of Manchester City FC.
We are the bastard prince never to be recognised for the power we fought for.
Only a total acquittal will clear our name and legacy - we know that is never going to happen and anything less will hang around us like a bad stink for years as all our achievements are forever tarnished by this campaign of hate.
We usurped the cartel and will never be forgiven .We challenged a corrupt system designed to protect them and throw clubs like City an occasional scrap from the top table,
I suspect we may have had to bend rules because there was no other way to force our way into a position to take on the mafia family of legacy clubs.
The media and the League are still their attack dogs and will never give us a moments peace.
So no forgive me for not being enthused at season 2024/5 and what we may or may not achieve.
It's alright mate, I feel the same.
Five in a row will be fought at every angle by every corner of the media. Already the narrative is about "two-time runners up Arsenal pushing Manchester City". The media has clearly chosen their champions elect, and until these charges are settled it will follow the players and fans around every game.

I suppose it's one of the reasons i've been hoping for the positive news about City suing the PL being announced already; something to go into battle with against the dimwitted. Having the same conversation over and over, raising the factual points with others gets tedious. Talk of "115" is going to dominate any football discussion about City from now until January and it's genuinely getting boring talking about it. So, like you, I don't have much enthusiasm about this season, expecting TV coverage to mention 115 at least ten times during matches, whilst watching Haaland miss another sitter.

It just feels like limbo. Manchester City right now are about the "115 charges", not about how well they play football.
 
It's alright mate, I feel the same.
Five in a row will be fought at every angle by every corner of the media. Already the narrative is about "two-time runners up Arsenal pushing Manchester City". The media has clearly chosen their champions elect, and until these charges are settled it will follow the players and fans around every game.

I suppose it's one of the reasons i've been hoping for the positive news about City suing the PL being announced already; something to go into battle with against the dimwitted. Having the same conversation over and over, raising the factual points with others gets tedious. Talk of "115" is going to dominate any football discussion about City from now until January and it's genuinely getting boring talking about it. So, like you, I don't have much enthusiasm about this season, expecting TV coverage to mention 115 at least ten times during matches, whilst watching Haaland miss another sitter.

It just feels like limbo. Manchester City right now are about the "115 charges", not about how well they play football.

Hang in there, we're on the last lap now. APT decision soon (this week, if Ziegler is correct) and 115 in January. Just think of the fun you'll have if these go our way.
 
You must have missed my post from the other day. We can only go off past charges of non co-operation and there's only been one, Evertons. They were found guilty of it and were given a 4 point penalty deduction for it. Remember the commission said in the Everton's case that a financial penalty is not appropriate for rich teams only sporting sanctions will be considered (sounds like discrimination if you ask me). That was for Everton imagine how rich they consider City to be. Everton managed to get the 4 points back on appeal due to not actually being charged for it in the first place. This was a major fuck up from the Premier League and the original commission but I question whether they did this for preparation for our case (tin foil hat stuff maybe). So make no mistake about it if we're found guilty on the non coperation charges we will be deducted points it's just a question of how many.
And that will fit the narrative perfectly. We didn't cooperate, because we had things to hide so we hid them. Therefore we are corrupt and "we told you so". The media pile-on continues unabated and all of our achievements, successes and reputation are forever tarnished. I could see a 15 to 20-point deduction, reduced to 10 on appeal. Mission accomplished by the red-shirted cartel clubs and the PL.
 

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