The Labour Government

[hampshireblue]

Lying about Brexit? The government supported remain.

I was mainly talking about its' implementation. We all know Cameron supported remain butnot very well, but the way they then allowed the ERG to take over and the present shambles it has turned into. Just imagine if GDP hadn't been 4% lower per annum. Maybe those who mainly voted for it wouldn't be losing some universal benefits.

 

[Phil1]

Right. They didn’t lie about Brexit, just fucked it up in a desperate rush to get it “done”. They also fucked up by asking us lot to express an opinion but they didn’t expect to lose so…

I never accused them of lying about brexit tbf.

 

[hampshireblue]

Unbelievable.

Are you still here with your helpful and insightful contributions?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I fundamentally, completely, disagree with you.

My employer pays ME to do work for them. They give ME the money. The government does not have any of its own money, only money it takes off working people like me. They take money that my employer pays ME and grab some of it for themselves. It does not become THEIR money when they do that. It is OUR money, that they are using to fund XYZ.

Similarly a thief cannot say this is MY money when he has stolen money off you. It is YOUR money that the thief has stolen. It is not the thiefs money.

Now everyone accepts that we need a level of taxation to pay for public services and that is fine. But please do not fall into the trap of thinking that the government is spending its own money. It isn't. It is spending your, and other taxpayers, money.

No what you are describing is the situation as you want it to be.

What I described is the situation as it exists in this country in legal fact.

Your position is not dissimilar to all taxation is theft.


Which is probably why you have decided to use that analogy. A thief never voluntarily returns money that he has taken (unless he made the mistake of stealing from someone he fears repercussions from).

The direct opposite of your viewpoint is all property is theft, which is a view held by (some) anarchists.

Money wasn't taken from you, it was never yours. It was an obligation which existed and which you have settled by paying your tax.

If you don't want to pay tax, don't use public footpaths and don't use public roads. But you'll have a hard time getting to work or going to the shops.

 

[metalblue]

I never accused them of lying about brexit tbf.

I know mate.

 

[metalblue]

I was mainly talking about its' implementation. We all know Cameron supported remain butnot very well, but the way they then allowed the ERG to take over and the present shambles it has turned into. Just imagine if GDP hadn't been 4% lower per annum. Maybe those who mainly voted for it wouldn't be losing some universal benefits.

Gotcha.

Remain fucked up, a bit too sure of themselves and the result. They got dragged in to the leave orbit. Being in EU costs you £350m a week… oh no it doesn’t it costs £250m a week. Not a peep about what we got for that £250m (or whatever the number they countered the £350m with). Now all people knew was it was expensive to be in the EU. Anyroad I’m going off on a tangent now so back to topic… ;)

 

[remember arthur mann]

Fixes industrial action, well done.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I was replying to this:

"finally! well done Labour.
sorting out pay for junior doctors and ending the risk of further strikes is also huge."

Oh ... so you've never posted anything about paying train drivers at the expense of pensioners then ?

 

[hilts]

This thread is very partizan. Its possible disagree with policy decisions and not be pro/against a particular political party.

From a personal point of view...

- UK Energy makes sense as does renationalised railways.

- The WFA has been bluntly applied and whilst I agree with the principle that those who are wealthy enough should not get it, the cliff edge is not right.

- Settlement of disputes,

With the junior doctors, good that its resolved, but the discussion is clearly not finished and threats are already there to take more action. If so then any future deal should have some level of reform going the other way.

ASLEF - as I posted previously it looks like the government folded without getting any reforms.

Rwanda - absolutely the correct thing to do.

You're far too sane to be posting in here.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

This thread is very partizan. Its possible disagree with policy decisions and not be pro/against a particular political party.

From a personal point of view...

- UK Energy makes sense as does renationalised railways.

- The WFA has been bluntly applied and whilst I agree with the principle that those who are wealthy enough should not get it, the cliff edge is not right.

- Settlement of disputes,

With the junior doctors, good that its resolved, but the discussion is clearly not finished and threats are already there to take more action. If so then any future deal should have some level of reform going the other way.

ASLEF - as I posted previously it looks like the government folded without getting any reforms.

Rwanda - absolutely the correct thing to do.

Labour have committed to bringing Railways back into public ownership ... no need to die on this hill now.

 

[PPT]

 

[metalblue]

Labour have committed to bringing Railways back into public ownership ... no need to die on this hill now.

Which is a good policy.

 

[blueish swede]

From a personal point of view...

- UK Energy makes sense as does renationalised railways.

- The WFA has been bluntly applied and whilst I agree with the principle that those who are wealthy enough should not get it, the cliff edge is not right.

The energy market in the UK is a joke. The consumers are being gouged year after year. Energy companies make huge profits but there is virtually no investmet, that that does go ahead is heavily subsidised / underwritten by the tax payer. Yet no-one is calling out the Energy companies for letting pensioners die of cold.

If energy costs were reasonable the WFA wouldn't be needed by so many. In Q4 in the UK the predicted price for electricity is 22p kWh in Stockholm (mid-price region in Sweden) it is just over 3p kWh. So it will cosy me about £27 to buy the £200 worth of 'leccy the WFA would buy.

The solution that seems to work is progressive energy pricing, where each household gets an allowace at a low price to cover basics and then the cost per kWh increases i stages as use increases. So heating your bedroom is cheap but heating your outdoor pool costs an arm and a leg.

 

[metalblue]

The energy market in the UK is a joke. The consumers are being gouged year after year. Energy companies make huge profits but there is virtually no investmet, that that does go ahead is heavily subsidised / underwritten by the tax payer. Yet no-one is calling out the Energy companies for letting pensioners die of cold.

If energy costs were reasonable the WFA wouldn't be needed by so many. In Q4 in the UK the predicted price for electricity is 22p kWh in Stockholm (mid-price region in Sweden) it is just over 3p kWh. So it will cosy me about £27 to buy the £200 worth of 'leccy the WFA would buy.

The solution that seems to work is progressive energy pricing, where each household gets an allowace at a low price to cover basics and then the cost per kWh increases i stages as use increases. So heating your bedroom is cheap but heating your outdoor pool costs an arm and a leg.

I like that progressive idea.

 

[lefty goldblatt]

 

[Kompany Car]

Labour have committed to bringing Railways back into public ownership ... no need to die on this hill now.

Its not a hill to die on its just what I personally feel is right and wrong. There certainly needs to be reform as we cant sit there whilst other countries are adopting technology which the unions dont like as it either deskills the job or means less staff are required.

I've personal experience of working on rollingstock where the behaviour of some drivers was downright scandalous, deliberately damaging controls so the train had to be withdrawn. When requests were made to have CCTV in drivers cabs the unions threatened strike action. On London Underground (also covered by ASLEF) the trains on the Victoria Line could have been fully automatic but the unions didnt like it, so they had to make it so the trains were driven from Northumberland Park Depot to Severn Sisters and then the ATO (Automatic Train Operation) was designed so the driver had to push 2 buttons all to ensure they were still called "Drivers".

 

[blueinsa]

The energy market in the UK is a joke. The consumers are being gouged year after year. Energy companies make huge profits but there is virtually no investmet, that that does go ahead is heavily subsidised / underwritten by the tax payer. Yet no-one is calling out the Energy companies for letting pensioners die of cold.

Spot on but Starmer promised the electorate he would put a stop to the energy companies and their practices.

Early days but I don’t see him keeping that promise sadly and yes, in a bleak winter and prices up again he has not only allowed them to do it, he has taken that WFA away for some of those amongst us so in need of a warm house.

It easy to make promises from the sidelines. Once in power, you just try taking big business on and see what happens.

He wouldn’t last a few weeks if he even tried making real change to the system and he knows it.

In that respect, the country is well and truly fucked and the real power isn’t in Westminster that’s for sure, they just do as they are told.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Chippy is reeling you all in , it is not a thread about him, take it to pm, i want to read about labour

I think what you mean Karen is that you want to hear nice things about Labour. There's plenty of discussion about Labour but shall we say not all positive.

As for me reeling them in, I have no desire to talk about the Tories. In fact quite the opposite.

btw I note you spent 19 pages slagging of the Tories in the Conservative Party thread.

 

[PPT]

I think what you mean Karen is that you want to hear nice things about Labour. There's plenty of discussion about Labour but shall we say not all positive.

As for me reeling them in, I have no desire to talk about the Tories. In fact quite the opposite.

btw I note you spent 19 pages slagging of the Tories in the Conservative Party thread.

Ouch!

 

[BlueHammer85]

Unbelievable.

Agree mate, relief at last, years and years of pay disputes, strikes, staff leaving the NHS to work abroad finally come to an end.