The Labour Government

[paulchapo]

Of course, and I agree with that. I'm just adding the nuance that people commenting to the effect of Labour are not taxing anything from the wealthy, it isn't strictly accurate. You can argue they're not taxing enough but the majority of their planned fiscal additions to national revenue are quite demonstrably coming from people who are asset rich. Unfortunately, they are also maintaining the freeze in the tax bands which means that they are not totally levying income from the rich. The truth is therefore somewhere in between.

And I do agree that the criteria being cited for WFP is not well thought-out (maybe they will change tack on that). But I also have little sympathy for the argument that all pensioners should get it. My grandparents were sitting on a house worth half a million while using their WFP on the lottery. Nobody my age has ever got something for nothing like that out of the government, so I don't see why we should make an exception here. It might have made sense 20 years ago when the country was in a very different financial situation.

I understand that they can't and won't just hammer the very wealthy as they'll lose any support and votes they had amongst those people. By the same token Labour are supposed to be a more sympathetic party towards those less well off. At the moment they are showing they are anything but. In fact, as simplistic as it is, by cancelling the winter fuel payment it makes them look worse.
A property's worth is subjective though isn't it? It was probably bought for a much lower price but grew in value as properties tend to do. When they took on the original mortgage it was probably a struggle for them. What a property is worth doesn't help to pay the bills unless they go for one of those equity release schemes, or sell up and move to a smaller property.

They didn't get anything either when they were younger, it's for people of pension age. I have no idea how long this payment has been in operation for but any party who cuts it isn't going to look good.

 

[hampshireblue]

Any of these tough choices landing on the wealthy?

I'm sure they will, but doing so effectively will take some time.

I'm supportive of the removal of universal fuel allowance. But the way they have done it is nothing other than clumsy and naive. Maybe they should have started the process by taking it away from those pensioners who are getting over £50k and therefore in the 40% tax band. There are a surprising number of these. It would be easy to do through the tax system. I would also look at changing the way the utility companies charge. The first £380 that all of us pay goes towards the standing charge and therefore nothing towards heating and lighting-that is just wrong. how it can be done, I don't know but there must be a solution. In this digital world, I would also ensure that anyone paying on a meter (usually the less well off) pays exactly the same rate as someone on a direct debit. This should be quite easy as meters can be programmed remotely to a particular tariff.

Now to the system: what is wealthy? I don't know as it's all subjective. For example, Yestedray, I paid £7 in a chippy in Mossley, that down here where I live is £13.What is wealthy in one part of the country is by no means in another, yet we have a one size fits all approach to it. We have a system that gives benefits on those earning upto £60k-are they wealthy, should they be getting any welfare at all? The same system has a "minimum wage" that is subject to tax and NI-if it's a minimum, why are there deductions if it's a minimum? It's those on minimum wages who are subsidising those on £60k-is it right? The same system decided that one day I had to pay for prescriptions but the next I didn't. I can afford to buy an annual certificate for £110ish, but suddenly I didn't need to. It's a small thing but multiplied many times over put an increasing strain on restricted resources. Instead I gift aid the amount to cancer research instead and it benefits to the tune of £140ish.

The whole system needs a root and branch re think. But it needs to be done sensitively and have some rationale behind it-not just plucking numbers out of the air. Someone earning over £100k pays tax at 62% upto £125k. Yet after that it drops to 40% and then 45% after £150k. There is no logic and it actually disincentivises people to succeed. None of this is easy or quick, but in my mind, necessary to make a fairer society.

 

[Vic]

I understand that they can't and won't just hammer the very wealthy as they'll lose any support and votes they had amongst those people. By the same token Labour are supposed to be a more sympathetic party towards those less well off. At the moment they are showing they are anything but. In fact, as simplistic as it is, by cancelling the winter fuel payment it makes them look worse.
A property's worth is subjective though isn't it? It was probably bought for a much lower price but grew in value as properties tend to do. When they took on the original mortgage it was probably a struggle for them. What a property is worth doesn't help to pay the bills unless they go for one of those equity release schemes, or sell up and move to a smaller property.

They didn't get anything either when they were younger, it's for people of pension age. I have no idea how long this payment has been in operation for but any party who cuts it isn't going to look good.

We got free prescriptions, free dental treatment, free university if you wanted it, housing might have been a struggle but most young people now would think the chance for a "struggle" would be nice. Most pensioners own their own homes with no mortgage or rent, and most of them have a decent occupational pension. Most are not choosing between "heat" and "eat".

 

[hilts]

The people who are struggling to get by won't be struggling to get by because they are burdened with high taxes. In fact, those on the lowest rung won't be paying much tax at all

My point was those who are pissing and whining seem to be those higher earners who begrudge paying a little more for the betterment of public service, even when a slightly higher rate won't be prohibitive to them in the slightest.

Where did I say high taxes?

 

[paulchapo]

We got free prescriptions, free dental treatment, free university if you wanted it, housing might have been a struggle but most young people now would think the chance for a "struggle" would be nice. Most pensioners own their own homes with no mortgage or rent, and most of them have a decent occupational pension. Most are not choosing between "heat" and "eat".

I hate this punching down attitude amongst the working class, we should be punching upwards not looking down in envy at people who grafted all their lives to try and better themselves. I don't remember free prescriptions for everybody, nor free dental treatment. NHS dentistry still exists if you're lucky enough to find one but even back then if you wanted more specialist work you had to pay for it.

Is it today's pensioners fault wages haven't kept up with inflation, so many of today's youth can't afford a property?
Not all have good occupational pensions and many still live in council or rented accomodation. Many are actually choosing between heat or eat.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Dick

He most certainly is, you're right.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Haha.
Funny how those on the right think he’s a Marxist while those on the left think he’s a Tory.

Perhaps. Either way, I think the red wall will be voting Reform after he's told life long Labour supporters they are all far right thugs.

 

[hilts]

We got free prescriptions, free dental treatment, free university if you wanted it, housing might have been a struggle but most young people now would think the chance for a "struggle" would be nice. Most pensioners own their own homes with no mortgage or rent, and most of them have a decent occupational pension. Most are not choosing between "heat" and "eat".

I think you have pulled your 'most, from up your arse. A Labour guy playing the division game, fuck me. Instead of get on your bike it's fuck the oldies. Wtf happened to you guys? Is this what winning turns you into?

 

[Vic]

I think you have pulled your 'most, from up your arse. A Labour guy playing the division game, fuck me. Instead of get on your bike it's fuck the oldies. Wtf happened to you guys? Is this what winning turns you into?

Well, what you think is wrong.

Why do you do it? It's dead easy really. "How many pensioners own their own home?" and press "search".

Point 2:

Living longer - Office for National Statistics

Trends in renting and owner-occupation by age group have changed in recent years. In the future, older people may be more likely to rent privately.

www.ons.gov.uk

It's not divisive to recognise that a generation voting Tory (and Brexit) have screwed the younger generation.

 

[hilts]

Well, what you think is wrong.

Why do you do it? It's dead easy really. "How many pensioners own their own home?" and press "search".

Point 2:

Living longer - Office for National Statistics

Trends in renting and owner-occupation by age group have changed in recent years. In the future, older people may be more likely to rent privately.

www.ons.gov.uk

It's not divisive to recognise that a generation voting Tory (and Brexit) have screwed the younger generation.

Pmsl

What have you become? Go on mention the big TV of people on benefits. This is so funny what you give up as a person.