The Labour Government

[BrianW]

It's not divisive to recognise that a generation voting Tory (and Brexit) have screwed the younger generation.

Hang on. I'm of that generation. I've never voted Tory and I certainly didn't vote Brexit as I am not a moron.

You cannot have collective punishment of generations. That's like fining all young people £500 for using coke, on the basis that many of them do use it.

 

[johnny crossan]

No point judging him now mate.

If that's your version of engagement I'm not missing much.

 

[Vic]

Hang on. I'm of that generation. I've never voted Tory and I certainly didn't vote Brexit as I am not a moron.

You cannot have collective punishment of generations. That's like fining all young people £500 for using coke, on the basis that many of them do use it.

Have a go at Hilts. He's the one challenging the fact that most pensioners are not going to freeze without the winter fuel payment. Withdrawing the WFP is not collective punishment.

The other fact is that the only generation with a majority now voting Tory is the over 65s, and (however you voted) this current generation are the wealthiest pensioners in British history (1 in 10 paying higher rate tax) and the next generation of pensioners will be poorer. And they're forcing up house prices by helping their younger relatives get on the housing market (not so good for those who can't rely on the bank of mum and dad) - and by being NIMBYs (creating scarcity that inflates the value of their property).

It's not as if the Tories have not done their bit - no free TV licence, raising the age at which you get a bus pass, cuts to councils so bus services have disappeared in some areas even if you had a bus pass. You used to be able to rely on finding a local library to keep warm in but Tory cuts have seen to that.

 

[west didsblue]

This thread is well and truly through the looking glass now with the right wing posters defending universal benefits and the left wing posters arguing for targeting them.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Labour party members could be stripped of vote in future leadership contests

MPS could be the only Labour members who would be allowed to elect the next party leader under plans by Keir Starmer’s allies which they are…

www.thenational.scot

Another fuck you to the members being planned.

 

[west didsblue]

Labour party members could be stripped of vote in future leadership contests

MPS could be the only Labour members who would be allowed to elect the next party leader under plans by Keir Starmer’s allies which they are…

www.thenational.scot

Another fuck you to the members being planned.

The MPs are those elected by the population and therefore best represent what the population want. A PM primarily accountable to the people through their MPs rather than primarily accountable to party members / activists makes a lot of sense to me.
The Tories have demonstrated with Truss and Johnson what can happen when party members are given the biggest say.

 

[Brewster's millions]

Have a go at Hilts. He's the one challenging the fact that most pensioners are not going to freeze without the winter fuel payment. Withdrawing the WFP is not collective punishment.

The other fact is that the only generation with a majority now voting Tory is the over 65s, and (however you voted) this current generation are the wealthiest pensioners in British history (1 in 10 paying higher rate tax) and the next generation of pensioners will be poorer. And they're forcing up house prices by helping their younger relatives get on the housing market (not so good for those who can't rely on the bank of mum and dad) - and by being NIMBYs (creating scarcity that inflates the value of their property).

It's not as if the Tories have not done their bit - no free TV licence, raising the age at which you get a bus pass, cuts to councils so bus services have disappeared in some areas even if you had a bus pass. You used to be able to rely on finding a local library to keep warm in but Tory cuts have seen to that.

Jesus. What a post.

You’re denying that you want collective punishment for pensioners, then you rattle off a list of reasons why you so obviously hate them, and do in fact want to dish out collective punishment.

Because a majority of them vote Tory - let them freeze. Because some of them try to help their families - let them freeze. Because you think they’re all Nimbys (zero proof of this by the way) - you guessed it, let them freeze.

Cap it all off by throwing in a nice little patronising idea about finding a library to keep warm in, which - somewhat preposterously - you lament can’t now happen because of the evil Tories.

Quite remarkable.

 

[Eebo]

Jesus. What a post.

You’re denying that you want collective punishment for pensioners, then you rattle off a list of reasons why you so obviously hate them, and do in fact want to dish out collective punishment.

Because a majority of them vote Tory - let them freeze. Because some of them try to help their families - let them freeze. Because you think they’re all Nimbys (zero proof of this by the way) - you guessed it, let them freeze.

Cap it all off by throwing in a nice little patronising idea about finding a library to keep warm in, which - somewhat preposterously - you lament can’t now happen because of the evil Tories.

Quite remarkable

As Bozo said “Let the bodies pile high”

 

[metalblue]

I have no idea what formula provides that equation but, assuming that "per passenger" means a daily commuter, it must value the "productivity" of time (not) spent on a train at about £25 an hour.

And if someone happens to work near Victoria rather than Piccadilly where NPR would go, then total journey time is no quicker than the present service Leeds to Victoria. And of course NPR from Liverpool to Manchester would be no quicker than a non-stop train now from Lime Street to Victoria.

Without HS2 into Piccadilly bearing the construction costs and providing most of the services, none of it makes commercial sense.

It is time, that’s how they value return on infrastructure for government spending. The logic being if you spend less time getting somewhere you can go and do “more”. Commercially it has to make sense, no point doing something that no one uses, for the return to work holistically you want it to be running at as near to capacity as reasonable - for rails that would be during peak times rather than off peak - this increases revenue etc.

 

[Blue and true]

Where did I say high taxes?

My original point was precisely about taxes, and how Tory apologists are at once aghast and surprised that they are going to need to rise a little to fix the country. How else do these idiots propose we improve public service and give the public sector fair pay? They are too self-absorbed to see it's the only way of redressing things.

I object wholeheartedly to Labour's decision to halt winter fuel allowance, if it isn't reversed they will go down in my estimation. But that has nothing to do with taxes needing to rise.