Assisted dying

[hilts]

The head of the Catholic church was on the radio last night, of course he was against it, and has sent out a letter to be read in all churches tomorrow supporting his views. I’m not sure it should have anything to do with the church.

He can go and fuck himself, himself not little boys, interfering twat.

 

[hilts]

I think most people would want a peaceful and painless death, if they could choose. When it comes to end of life care you are trying to make people as comfortable as possible but unless they're doped up on morphine which ultimately kills them anyway, they're in some level of pain and with limited quality of life.

My Mum wanted to die about 3 months before she actually did. Those 3 months were her in a bed at home, in pain, largely miserable. And whilst we could see her and speak to her it was horrific to watch, horrific for her and would have been best avoided with assisted dying.

It's inhumane the way some people have to suffer.

This is what the nay sayers need to get into their heads, seeing a loved one suffering stays with you forever. Losing a parent, spouse, child or anyone you care for is fucking awful. Knowing they suffered can be unbearable.

 

[kaz7]

I was being polite and restrained in my reply. I could have really explained it to you. Any one who calls it starving people to death is one of them “nurses” who current nurses call bed washers.

Insults , nice way to talk to a staff nurse of twenty years

On ignore from now on

 

[metalblue]

Insults , nice way to talk to a staff nurse of twenty years

On ignore from now on

Hahaha. As per usual you flounce off.

You’re an old nurse with old knowledge and ideas.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

The head of the Catholic church was on the radio last night, of course he was against it, and has sent out a letter to be read in all churches tomorrow supporting his views. I’m not sure it should have anything to do with the church.

good example to use when people say “why should I care what religious people believe as long as they don’t try to convert me”. Deity Religious doctrines pervade society and influence people and politics. Superstitious beliefs having tangible and often cruel impacts on those of us with no superstitious beliefs.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Although I have sympathy for those who want to end it all due to pain and suffering, i doubt there will be sufficient protection for:
1- People who are being coerced into agreeing to it by relatives or friends.
2 - Doctors who think it is against the Hippocratic oath.

Sorry but the protection for both will undoubtably be insufficient.

 

[stonerblue]

Although I have sympathy for those who want to end it all due to pain and suffering, i doubt there will be sufficient protection for:
1- People who are being coerced into agreeing to it by relatives or friends.
2 - Doctors who think it is against the Hippocratic oath.

Sorry but the protection for both will undoubtably be insufficient.

So a hypothetical situation should rule over real life?

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

If memory serves me well there was uproar with the LCP at end of life which allowed death to naturally occur. Stories about hospitals given extra money if they put patients on them and false stories about people dying of thirst… but 10 years later it’s fine and HCPs can kill you!!

The main issues I see are;

No one should be in unbearable pain. If they are that is a failure of the existing MDT supporting that patient. We should not accept people preferring death to life due to uncontrolled pain - that’s just a cop out of a medical professional not doing their job properly. I do accept there is a limit to this and that is where the pain control is leaving the patient so sedated they have no quality of life. So here a patient should be given a choice, we can ramp up the pain management but you are not going to know what day of week it is and offer the option of death then. That seems a reasonable point for pain (for other conditions there can be very fixed points in the disease trajectory a decision can be made).

Who is going to provide the assistance? It will be wholly unreasonable to expect to pitch up at your local hospital and expect a nurse or doctor to do this. You will need a single centralised place where this can happen - somewhere in the middle of the country. That will require multiple visits to provide psychological support.

People must have capacity at point of death to confirm that is their wish. You cannot rely on something like a DNR, it’s fundamentally different - with a DNR you are already dead.

Primarily I have little issue in concept with allowing people to choose death - my issues is - ok great, but who, how, under what conditions, and what guardrails. Will our MPs think of the practical implementation of their policy when voting? we can only hope.

Death occurs naturally if pain is controlled to many regulations on how much painkillers are given. Some doctors play god by restricting medications at the end of life.
Example your at home with breathing problems after cardiac failure. The supply of oxygen is limited but your left gasping because the canister is empty.
McMillan nurses do a great job by taking patients in to their respite hospice they sort out medications
We need more of McMillan respite care.

 

[BlueAnorak]

So a hypothetical situation should rule over real life?

Hypothetical?
Hardly.
Doctors have been debating this issue for many years amd the NHS will refuse to accept doctors refusing on the basis of being against the Hippocratic Oath and promotion prospects will be affected. See what happens to NHS whistle blowers for for how the NHS actually deals with them.
I know for certain that Geriatrician Consultants will strike if there is not a watertight legal exemption. Don't know about other ranks.
As to families putting pressure on relatives?
You think not? I think you are extremely naive.
I'm not saying No parsay, but legally watertight resolutions to the above problems MUST be provided or it will be an absolute disaster. These will take a long time to resolve.

 

[metalblue]

Death occurs naturally if pain is controlled to many regulations on how much painkillers are given. Some doctors play god by restricting medications at the end of life.
Example your at home with breathing problems after cardiac failure. The supply of oxygen is limited but your left gasping because the canister is empty.
McMillan nurses do a great job by taking patients in to their respite hospice they sort out medications
We need more of McMillan respite care.

That is terrible, we all know community care is under resourced but again we need to prioritise the dying as much as the curable.

Some doctors aren’t very good with EoL patients, it’s simply not their specialty or they focus on their Hippocratic oath to preserve life at the expense of the patients journey. One of the best quotes I read was that doctors need to act in a patients best interests and being dead is rarely in a patients bests interests.

It’s a lot better than it once was and in medical terms specialist EoL care is a fairly new specialism (1980s if memory serves me well). A lot more needs to be invested if we want everyone to have a good death. That goes with hospices as well, bed availability is a huge problem - the problem is in a system with finite resources do you prioritise those resources on the curable or the dying?

Assisted dying isn’t a magic bullet for all the problems we have with it, they will all still remain.

 

[kaz7]

Hahaha. As per usual you flounce off.

You’re an old nurse with old knowledge and ideas.

I will answer this one , your post is well beneath you and i am disappointed in you , we have always got on ok, or so i thought, clearly the nurses code has passed your wife by

I am not leaving the thread, you and your wife are being abusive and disrespecting me because my opinon on assisted dying is different to yours . I have lost mum, dad and recently my brother to cancer and they all suffered till the end , it is utter crap that nobody has an horrific death and there should be the option to die when they choose

Perhaps when you get near the end and are at home in pain you might just change your mind

 

[stonerblue]

Hypothetical?
Hardly.
Doctors have been debating this issue for many years amd the NHS will refuse to accept doctors refusing on the basis of being against the Hippocratic Oath and promotion prospects will be affected. See what happens to NHS whistle blowers for for how the NHS actually deals with them.
I know for certain that Geriatrician Consultants will strike if there is not a watertight legal exemption. Don't know about other ranks.
As to families putting pressure on relatives?
You think not? I think you are extremely naive.
I'm not saying No parsay, but legally watertight resolutions to the above problems MUST be provided or it will be an absolute disaster. These will take a long time to resolve.

Naive? Not sure how you work that out.
You think a perfectly sane adult is gonna be 'forced' into ending their life a bit earlier than they planned because of pressure from friends or relatives?

 

[metalblue]

I will answer this one , your post is well beneath you and i am disappointed in you , we have always got on ok, or so i thought, clearly the nurses code has passed your wife by

I am not leaving the thread, you and your wife are being abusive and disrespecting me because my opinon on assisted dying is different to yours . I have lost mum, dad and recently my brother to cancer and they all suffered till the end , it is utter crap that nobody has an horrific death and there should be the option to die when they choose

Perhaps when you get near the end and are at home in pain you might just change your mind

My views are my own. Mrs MB told me off as it happens!!

You were the one who started with being rude so I just responded in kind.

Anyroad to your point, people do die in pain - they shouldn’t need to - I don’t see this legislation changing that in any way. You and I aren’t going to be able to pop to our local hospital and be helped along our way in the last couple of weeks. When my dad died he had fluids etc withdrawn and being a stubborn hung on for a couple of weeks - it’s really hard to watch but I believe he had a good death.

 

[Phil1]

Too many busy cunts about.
Being refused your dying wish because of some oath nurses and doctors have taken is a nonsense. The patients wishes should trump everything else and if that means being put to rest then so be it.
I just don’t see it ever happening in the U.K. though sadly because, well my first line explains it in simple terms.

 

[kaz7]

My views are my own. Mrs MB told me off as it happens!!

You were the one who started with being rude so I just responded in kind.

Anyroad to your point, people do die in pain - they shouldn’t need to - I don’t see this legislation changing that in any way. You and I aren’t going to be able to pop to our local hospital and be helped along our way in the last couple of weeks. When my dad died he had fluids etc withdrawn and being a stubborn hung on for a couple of weeks - it’s really hard to watch but I believe he had a good death.

Just looked back to see where i was rude , i wasnt ,

 

[metalblue]

Just looked back to see where i was rude , i wasnt ,

In my defence I do have man flu so…

 

[Phil1]

In my defence I do have man flu so…

You need some, err, assistance??

:-)

 

[stonerblue]

Too many busy cunts about.
Being refused your dying wish because of some oath nurses and doctors have taken is a nonsense. The patients wishes should trump everything else and if that means being put to rest then so be it.
I just don’t see it ever happening in the U.K. though sadly because, well my first line explains it in simple terms.

Bang on.

 

[metalblue]

You need some, err, assistance??

:-)

Please… ;)

 

[The Black Shed]

My dad passed away last year, following a massive stroke. When it happened it was instantly game over for him, in a physical sense. Mentally I think there was something there, but not only was he paralysed but also non-verbal. I'm sure as eggs is eggs that given the choice he would have asked for a shot of the good stuff with a single malt chaser. But even if assisted dying was on the menu, where does somebody stand given their condition and inability to consent?

The bizarre thing was that once the medical teams had got a handle on his heart and blood problems, they deemed him 'fit for discharge', not in immediate danger of dying and he was dispatched out into the care home system. Bizarre considering the state he was in. Anyway, a decision was made for him, not by me or anyone in the family. There was no POA in that respect, no written wishes.