US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

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The blue phantom said:
He basically supported Bernie to endorsing Trump. He was like that for a while too.
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Bernie is himself disillusioned with the Democratic Party!!! He's literally come out and criticised them for the direction the party has gone in. The only difference is Bernie (and he runs as an individual these days) is still more affiliated with the dems and won't vote Trump as he sees Harris as the lesser of two evils. But Bernie and Joe's feelings towards the dems isn't too dissimilar!
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
I’m not actually disagreeing with you. I know you’re upset and it’s very personal for you, and that’s ok.

I am speaking as someone in another country who is looking at this and forming an objective opinion. I have no emotional attachment to the election. I’d have preferred Harris to win, but expected Trump to for all of the reasons I’ve outlined in this thread.

I hope you and your family are ok mate.
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They aren’t ok, but thanks for asking.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
So you’re overlooking the right that worked with him for many years using that term against him ?
Yes , sure many democrats and the left on social media but the loudest voices and the ones we should be listening too are the former generals and advisors that worked with him.
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I don't think I'm overlooking anyone. My point is he isn't hitler. Who ever calls him that or alludes to it is sensationalising or has an agenda, left or right.
 
inbetween said:
One of the biggest frustrations for people is the rise of minority politics such as gender politics. These have become huge issues but I have never spoken to a single person who understands it let alone is bothered. Even our nieces and nephews in their early 20's groan when gender politics comes up in the news. Trump made it clear that these weren't going to be priorities for his administration but it clearly was for the Democrats.

As much as I can't stand Trump, his rhetoric and he is an awful person, the issues he does speak about are important to somebody like me, though I don't necessarily agree with the ways he will fix those problems! In the UK I am worried about the economy, immigration and safety. I can see how people may feel backed into a corner when those issues are marginalised and not given priority.

We're seeing it now in the UK where anybody with a concern over immigration is now suddenly being labelled as far-right. So in 4-5 years time you can imagine that the Tories will get in again on an anti-immigration ticket and suddenly people will be saying that the entire country is fascist and racist.

The only way the same won't happen here is if Labour stands up and tackles these difficult problems as a government that stands for everyone. So far I'm not so sure they will and then the end result will be inevitable.
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100% this.
 
inbetween said:
One of the biggest frustrations for people is the rise of minority politics such as gender politics. These have become huge issues but I have never spoken to a single person who understands it let alone is bothered. Even our nieces and nephews in their early 20's groan when gender politics comes up in the news. Trump made it clear that these weren't going to be priorities for his administration but it clearly was for the Democrats.

As much as I can't stand Trump, his rhetoric and he is an awful person, the issues he does speak about are important to somebody like me, though I don't necessarily agree with the ways he will fix those problems! In the UK I am worried about the economy, immigration and safety. I can see how people may feel backed into a corner when those issues are marginalised and not given priority.

We're seeing it now in the UK where anybody with a concern over immigration is now suddenly being labelled as far-right. So in 4-5 years time you can imagine that the Tories will get in again on an anti-immigration ticket and suddenly people will be saying that the entire country is fascist and racist.

The only way the same won't happen here is if Labour stands up and tackles these difficult problems as a government that stands for everyone. So far I'm not so sure they will and then the end result will be inevitable.
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Starmer has tweeted today about the need to halt the boats and people smuggling. I think labour are aware of the issue.
 
bugsyblue said:
I don't think I'm overlooking anyone. My point is he isn't hitler. Who ever calls him that or alludes to it is sensationalising or has an agenda, left or right.
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No not Hitler but there is facist parallels as his former inner circles reminded us.
 
inbetween said:
One of the biggest frustrations for people is the rise of minority politics such as gender politics. These have become huge issues but I have never spoken to a single person who understands it let alone is bothered. Even our nieces and nephews in their early 20's groan when gender politics comes up in the news. Trump made it clear that these weren't going to be priorities for his administration and I agree with that.

As much as I can't stand Trump, his rhetoric and he is an awful person, the issues he does speak about are important to somebody like me, though not necessarily the ways he will fix those problems though! In the UK I am worried about the economy, immigration and safety. I can see how people may feel backed into a corner when those issues are marginalised and not given priority.

We're seeing it now in the UK where anybody with a concern over immigration is now suddenly being labelled as far-right. So in 4-5 years time you can imagine that the Tories will get in again on an anti-immigration ticket and suddenly people will be saying that the entire country is fascist and racist.

The only way the same won't happen here is if Labour stands up and tackles these difficult problems as a government that stands for everyone. So far I'm not so sure they will and then the end result will be inevitable.
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Since the concept of "identity politics" emerged, things like "Occupy Wall Street" have become less likely to happen.
It is designed.
I guess...
 
inbetween said:
This is a bit excessive because Trump has not advocated for an outright fascist state. At best he has advocated for stricter border controls and an illegal migrant deterrence and that's not controversial or fascist.

This is a big issue to Americans and it probably should be given literally millions of people have entered the US illegally. The numbers who attempted to enter the US illegally increased MASSIVELY under Biden. This could be perceived by many as an invasion given the huge numbers. What was Harris's policy?

I don't like Trump but it cannot be reduced to fascism, there are not 72 million facists and racists in the US. It's a problem and one person gave a vocal answer to that problem whereas the other didn't. The other also called anybody worried about this problem a racist or facist... So is it any surprise that they voted for the boogy man?

20240127_EPC149.png
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Surely your immigration facts are racist, so you shouldn't be allowed to post them or you are the next Hitler etc?
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
No, people want to blame and punish those they think made them worse off. Like immigrants.
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In 2022, undocumented migrants contributed an estimated $8.9BILLION for every million undocumented migrant to the US economy. And who do you think picks all that fruit and veg that people like to buy cheaply from their local supermarket? I'll give you a clue, it isn't those young first-time voters who stuck an X in the box for Trump this time round.

(Not having a go at you by the way; just having a vent at the stupidity of the US electorate as a whole)

itep.org

Tax Payments by Undocumented Immigrants

Undocumented immigrants paid $96.7 billion in federal, state, and local taxes in 2022. Providing access to work authorization for undocumented immigrants would increase their tax contributions both because their wages would rise and because their rates of tax compliance would increase.
itep.org itep.org
 
From Jon Meachem, albeit not his own work:

“Americans do the right thing only once we have exhausted every other possibility.”

America does nothing until it’s a crisis. Let’s see how long after Jan 20 (if it takes that long) before we have one. Then, let’s see if Trump is capable of “doing the right thing!”
 
Middedon said:
At least among the liberal pundits I listen to, it’s more “a perfect campaign given the situation.” Came in late, good debate, raised money, no big gaffes, etc. But the cards were stacked against her from the start - as kind of described in the attached.
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I agree but some of her decisions were odds. Personally her campaigning with some of the richest people in America like Cuban and Republicans like Liz Cheney seemed like unnecessary unforced errors.
 
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