The Labour Government

[I'm With Stupid]

Pensioners are the only demographic to get non-means tested benefits though so aren't you basically saying the wfa should have been removed so that everyone is on a level pegging?

It should be a means tested benefit, absolutely. Whether it should only be available to pensioners depends on why it exists in the first place though. And I think the reason it exists is because pensioners are more vulnerable to the cold, which is absolutely fair enough. But yeah, it shouldn't be going to millionaire pensioners. Benefits should be about responding to needs, not redistributing wealth. The redistributing wealth should mainly come in the form of high quality public services.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I totally agree that a pan-European quota and coordination of the refugee crisis in Europe would of been sensible but that isn't what people on here are arguing for. People on here are arguing that any refugee anywhere in the world should be able to claim asylum in the UK from anywhere in the world at anytime.

For me, it's an issue of what counts as a refugee. I have no issue with people from Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine, Sudan, and other clearly war-torn parts of the world claiming asylum. But I was reading an article about a Vietnamese people smuggler.

Now I live in Vietnam, and there is no conflict here. There might be a handful of people who would suffer political oppression because of something they've written or said, but there's no way that thousands of people a year are in that boat. But the people were being advised to claim that they'd got into debt and their life was now in danger. And presumably they are being advised that, because it works. I'm sorry, but is that a genuine reason to claim asylum? Because you borrowed money from some gangsters and couldn't pay it back? Surely that's a job for the local police.

 

[Blue Maverick]

For me, it's an issue of what counts as a refugee. I have no issue with people from Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine, Sudan, and other clearly war-torn parts of the world claiming asylum. But I was reading an article about a Vietnamese people smuggler.

Now I live in Vietnam, and there is no conflict here. There might be a handful of people who would suffer political oppression because of something they've written or said, but there's no way that thousands of people a year are in that boat. But the people were being advised to claim that they'd got into debt and their life was now in danger. And presumably they are being advised that, because it works. I'm sorry, but is that a genuine reason to claim asylum? Because you borrowed money from some gangsters and couldn't pay it back? Surely that's a job for the local police.

My mates girlfriend works in the home office dealing with immigration,he says the whole system is broken, if they deny someone asylum nothing happens there’s no knock at the door and carted off to the airport, the people just disappear and then reappear a few years later under a different name. Also certain solicitors are getting people asylum and then selling on how they did it, so basically a name change is done and the case goes forward that next person gets asylum etc etc.
She had a guy from Iran say he wanted to be a professional footballer when told they have them Iran and he would be denied, he disappeared and will resurface later. There are priests signing paperwork to “convert” them to Christianity, they then put one post on social media that they are Christian and use this that their life is in danger if they go back. It’s all a big fucking scam and they are struggling to deal with it, and the Tories saying they dealt with a certain backlog was complete and utter lies.

 

[Vic]

Limiting RTB is a good thing. Temporary accommodation is a major contributing factor to some councils being on the brink of financial disaster

It is, but social care is a bigger factor. Some expensive packages out there. One of the Cheshire councils spending £10m a year on 19 SEND children.

 

[mosssideblue]

Needs to be a bespoke Immigration thread, as this one has been totally derailed

 

[Manc in London]

It is, but social care is a bigger factor. Some expensive packages out there. One of the Cheshire councils spending £10m a year on 19 SEND children.

Depends on the council. In the south west, it is temporary accommodation, mostly. In outer London it is the double whammy of SEND (provision and transport) and temporary accommodation are massive issues. A council I know of had an increase in temporary accomodation spend of £10m in just one year (2023-24).

One issue not talked about much is inflation. It increased annual costs at the council referred to above by £11m.

 

[blueparrot]

I never said the first country should take them all, although we did take the Welsh:-), just that you are all over the place, it shouldn't be geography it should be geography, it's not very coherent tbh. Although you haven't brought the Norman's Vikings or Africa into it so kudos.

Some problems don't have answers and this is one of those I'm afraid.

I am all over the place ,that's okay.I think we should do what we can where we can and not decide not to bother because we can't do everything everywhere.
Not doing something because people might accuse me of being inconsistent is worse IMO.It might not answer everything but rejoining the EU scheme would help,so we should,for me it's as simple as that.

 

[hampshireblue]

The number of ‘camps’ referred to have been reduced over recent years as people have been moved to generally very good accommodation centres in nice areas, where they are also well supported by the local communities.
What she actually said was “let’s move away from the idea that France is safe”, which is nonsense.

I quote the writer "I keep reading that france is a safe country , not in the migrant camps". Any further reference to France in the same post obviously is in the context of her opening caveat.

You're clearly an expert on the number and quality of camps, so for your perusal is an excerpt from an article:

"Smugglers run the camps​

I soon realised that the Loon Plage was run by Iraqi-Kurdish smugglers, who have also infiltrated the town of Grande Synthe and have a monopoly on boat crossings on this part of the Pas de Calais coast.

The mafia-like organisation they belong to is structured and runs quite smoothly. Permanent “staff” run the “shops”, maintain the camp and feed the refugees who have paid for an “all-inclusive” passage. These “permanents” are people who have decided to remain in the region to control who comes and goes. The shops are small stalls at the entrance of the camp where food and cigarettes are sold. Some people, whose families have sold everything or who have more financial means, will manage to pay for the whole journey from their country of origin to the UK. This category of people do not usually stay long in camps because their journey has already been negotiated and paid for from the outset.

The shops are sometimes used as payment points and also act as relays for les petites mains, or “little hands”, the ever-changing mafia workforce. The little hands include recruiters who generally work between Calais and Grande-Synthe to recruit refugees who have arrived alone and who want to make the crossing and the “organisers” who accompany each convoy of refugees on the beach on the night of the crossing and who stay with them while waiting for the boats.

I learned from my interviews that the smuggling network has many recruiters working from other towns and countries in Africa and in the Middle East. They also recruit refugees to pilot the boats. It is hard to find boat pilots, so at times they get paid in addition to getting a free crossing."

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

My mates girlfriend works in the home office dealing with immigration,he says the whole system is broken, if they deny someone asylum nothing happens there’s no knock at the door and carted off to the airport, the people just disappear and then reappear a few years later under a different name. Also certain solicitors are getting people asylum and then selling on how they did it, so basically a name change is done and the case goes forward that next person gets asylum etc etc.
She had a guy from Iran say he wanted to be a professional footballer when told they have them Iran and he would be denied, he disappeared and will resurface later. There are priests signing paperwork to “convert” them to Christianity, they then put one post on social media that they are Christian and use this that their life is in danger if they go back. It’s all a big fucking scam and they are struggling to deal with it, and the Tories saying they dealt with a certain backlog was complete and utter lies.

And they get away with this despite their biometrics being logged under their old identity. Not sure this second hand information is very reliable tbh.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

49 years?

If I work for 50 yrs and pay National insurance for 49 yrs I need 39yrs for a full state pension. It’s changed to 35yrs recently.
It’s a long time paying in to the system the employers stamp has just been increased in the budget to be fair the treasury earns millions from national insurance.

 

[Don Karleone]

An absolute ****.

 

[hampshireblue]

If I work for 50 yrs and pay National insurance for 49 yrs I need 39yrs for a full state pension. It’s changed to 35yrs recently.
It’s a long time paying in to the system the employers stamp has just been increased in the budget to be fair the treasury earns millions from national insurance.

There was a thread aout this a couple of months ago. It's difficult to calculate how much NI a person actually pays. I did a ballpark based on average earnings, how much was actually paid, and for how long that paid for the state pension. It was actually around 6 year's worth. So whilst it may be earning form NI, it more than pays out that amount.

 

[hilts]

I am all over the place ,that's okay.I think we should do what we can where we can and not decide not to bother because we can't do everything everywhere.
Not doing something because people might accuse me of being inconsistent is worse IMO.It might not answer everything but rejoining the EU scheme would help,so we should,for me it's as simple as that.

If your plan is to rejoin the EU scheme and take in anyone you can't prove isn't a genuine asylum seeker no matter the numbers them that's fine, I just don't agree no biggie.

 

[Palerider]

There was a thread aout this a couple of months ago. It's difficult to calculate how much NI a person actually pays. I did a ballpark based on average earnings, how much was actually paid, and for how long that paid for the state pension. It was actually around 6 year's worth. So whilst it may be earning form NI, it more than pays out that amount.

Yep. The state pension is around £10,000 and you would probably need a 'pot' of about £250,000 (possibly more) to get an inflation linked pension of that amount.

On the NHS. The Germans pay (from the internet see below.)

How much does health insurance cost per month in Germany? Social security contributions for Public Health Insurance (GKV, Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung) are set at 14.6% of an employee's gross salary. This is made up of a 7.3% contribution from the employer, plus a 7.3% contribution from the employee.

Now, we (the UK) tend to hide these payments in various taxes and National Insurance but it would clearly be beneficial to move them into full view on wage slips etc where we can see exactly where our money goes and if say, we want a better NHS or State Pension then we know we will all have to pay more in taxes.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Wesley slagging off NHS staff and managers in preparation for his donors taking over.

 

[Postman Pep]

An absolute ****.

Absolute shameless ****.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

How is the UK not swamped? I thought that local government, healthcare, social care, housing, transport, education were all on their knees? Why on earth all the fuss over resources if there are ample available?

If the system is however broken then how will an additional hundreds of thousands of people help this system or the people that you know are already here and need to use it too?

But then again, you only have to ask the people of Altrincham who are sat on 2yr NHS waiting lists whilst migrants in their town are being given phones and immediate access to private doctors so maybe it won't affect it after all?

Tell me your a Daily Mail / Express reader without actually saying the words Daily Mail / Daily express.


If you believe they are being given phones you seriously need help. (they're not)

If you object to people who have travelled half the way around the world and in need of medical attention should be denied that medical attention ...... you seriously need help.

 

[inbetween]

Tell me your a Daily Mail / Express reader without actually saying the words Daily Mail / Daily express.


If you believe they are being given phones you seriously need help. (they're not)

If you object to people who have travelled half the way around the world and in need of medical attention should be denied that medical attention ...... you seriously need help.

I'll actually hold my hands up, you are correct, but this makes things even worse and not better.

We processed 75,000 last year, how on earth is this costing us £4bn+ per year, £55,000+ per asylum seeker?

My last argument still stands, I don't see any reason to attract further arrivals by opening the UK to the world and we can reduce costs by just resourcing to process new/existing claims faster.

I mean blimey, you could employ 1,000 new people each on £100k a year at the Home Office and it'd be cheaper! It's actually technically a job creation industry if anything else but naturally it's the taxpayer who suffers.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

There was a thread aout this a couple of months ago. It's difficult to calculate how much NI a person actually pays. I did a ballpark based on average earnings, how much was actually paid, and for how long that paid for the state pension. It was actually around 6 year's worth. So whilst it may be earning form NI, it more than pays out that amount.

The more you earn the more you pay in to N.I. scheme and so does your employer, we don’t get back what we pay in, it’s paid into the N.I.fund each year there is a surplus eg: the N.I. fund had a surplus of over £34 billion as at 2005/06 not everyone lives long enough to claim six years back.

The surplus is loaned to the government for the Reduction of the National Debt, Previously it was just invested in gilt-edged securities.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Can anyone tell me what they are doing in relation to this pension fund thing, are they allowing them to use it for investment, what are the chances of the ones been lost? Seems a bit dodgy especially when you see people with private pensions who lost everything, my mates dad included.