Russian invasion of Ukraine

jrb said:
Putin can say what he wants. Do you think ‘all the European leaders belonging to NATO’ are going to back down to him and to agree to what he wants? Come on!
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They will if there's ever a time in the future when NATO doesn't include the Americans.

In that situation he could and would take the piss. Britain and France's 8 subs carrying nuke's, is only a small deterrent. You honestly think we'd use them if he attacked the Baltic's or Poland?

We also don't have a tactical nuke deterrent, so what would our response be if he used them?

Fire the big boys? No chance!
 
jrb said:
And how far has Putin and Russia got?

1/4 of the way across Ukraine, slowly destroying Russia’s armed forces and economy, and creating a bigger NATO border and force.

It really hasn’t worked, has it.
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I said earlier today, it was badly planned and even more badly executed, and he might have gained a a few hundred square kilometers, in what has been a pretty humiliating defeat in reality.

On top of that he's ruined his economy short, medium, and long term.
 
west didsblue said:
You’ve not really refuted my point that Putin has been launching attacks by various means on the west for 20 years. Just because he’s bitten off more than he can chew with Ukraine doesn’t mean he’s going to sit back and not do anything else.
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He no longer has the ability, ha wasted it with this nonsence, but Ukraine was all he had to attack, as most of the rest of eastern europe was already within NATO.
 
A year from now there won't be a Ukraine. The only question is if the US just stops aid for Ukraine or if we actually send troops to support Russia.
 
jrb said:
It’s slowly escalating into a direct Russia and NATO war.

The rhetoric on here is admirable, but if that war happens there will be a lot of arse twitching on here, across Europe, Russia, and around the world.

All it takes is for Putin to order a missile strike on a NATO country or countries in retaliation. He’s capable enough, deluded enough, and mad enough to do that. And the next thing will be NATO missile strikes on Russia, and troops on Ukrainian soil, just as Putin predicted to the Russian people.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has previously warned Western nations against such a move, saying it would represent the Nato military alliance's "direct participation" in the Ukraine war.
He was yet to comment on Sunday's reports although other senior Kremlin politicians described it as a serious escalation.

www.bbc.co.uk

Biden allows Ukraine to strike inside Russia with long-range missiles

The move is a major change in US policy after months of entreaties from Kyiv.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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If all that happens so what?
I don't mean that as aggressive. Sometime in life, events happen beyond your control.
If we somehow end up at war to protect a nation from an aggressor, so be it. It will be on Putin, not us. If that ends up the ultimate price, then so be it. I'm not brave, i'm just not afraid.

What i couldn't stand, is watching from the sidelines while a bully gets what he wants. China is watching etc. America it seems has lost its compassion to help others and stand up to Putin (by the way they have voted). It's as if we have learnt nothing from previous wars. You cannot appease aggressors. Only force works.

NATO won't be sending any troops. Individual countries may decide at some point to send limited troops. But not for direct combat. This is the point that Europe needs to stand up and back the Ukraine to the hilt. Full sanctions, release Russian funding, stop all restrictions on weapons.

If UKraine falls, we have failed it.
 
jrb said:
The world has always been full of dictators causing problems around the world, but those problems haven’t spilled out into a possible world war.

The Cuban Missile crisis.
America v North Vietnam.(China)
Isreal v Egypt.
Iraq v America and the UK.
Israel v Iran and it’s proxies.
Russia v Ukraine.
Etc.

Before the war started in ernest, Russia already controlled parts of Ukraine. The war was started by Putin to try and get the whole of Ukraine under Russian control.
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If you’re just going to post random facts that don’t back up your point then any discussion is pointless. I’ll leave you to it.
 
The Stockport Iniesta said:
They will if there's ever a time in the future when NATO doesn't include the Americans.

In that situation he could and would take the piss. Britain and France's 8 subs carrying nuke's, is only a small deterrent. You honestly think we'd use them if he attacked the Baltic's or Poland?

We also don't have a tactical nuke deterrent, so what would our response be if he used them?

Fire the big boys? No chance!
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Even without the US nato is enough to take on Russia in a conventional war. At this point Poland alone would walk all over them.

If the Us can block the use of there hardware by NATO states it’s very different.
 
jrb said:
The world has always been full of dictators causing problems around the world, but those problems haven’t spilled out into a possible world war.

The Cuban Missile crisis.
America v North Vietnam.(China)
Isreal v Egypt.
Iraq v America and the UK.
Israel v Iran and it’s proxies.
Russia v Ukraine.
Etc.

Before the war started in ernest, Russia already controlled parts of Ukraine. The war was started by Putin to try and get the whole of Ukraine under Russian control.
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How many of those dictators had actively stated they want to take over more counties?

Putin’s openly stated that he wants to “return sovereignty to Europe”, and I believe he has also stated he wants the old USSR borders back, if it wasn’t him it was his cronies.
 
Blue Maverick said:
Bollocks and there is zero need for US troops, give Ukraine troops the weapons they need and let them off the leash, this war would’ve been over a year ago.
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Assuming that @buckshot was being serious, you've misread his statement - it reads that Trump will abandon Ukraine (essentially), although I think even he knows that supporting Russia would a tough one!
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Don’t you get it? The **** will never be happy. He’ll always want more. No matter how much he has.
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Two years ago I'd have agreed with that, but the resistance shown by Ukraine means he might have to settle for any small victory in order to save face.
We'll know whether he wields any power over Trump in the first six months of his presidency.
 
Blue Maverick said:
Bollocks and there is zero need for US troops, give Ukraine troops the weapons they need and let them off the leash, this war would’ve been over a year ago.
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If they get those weapons and fail to accomplish their goals, Russia wouldn't have any interest in peace talks as they would be very bullish and confident to take all that's on the table, if that happens then the US (and most likely the UK) would have to send troops in. That's not something anyone wants
 
jrb said:
Putin won’t attack NATO.

Putin wants Ukraine.

If Putin eventually gets Ukraine, he will be happy.
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I love these sort of posts. Simultaneously ultra confident and completely uninformed.

FYI Putin has been involved in wars in Georgia, Moldova (Transnistria) not to mention Syria and several African countries, as well as providing troops to prop up the regime in Khazakhstan. The Belarus dictatorship survives only due to Russian support and is effectively a Russian satellite state.

He's also been on a campaign to destabilise the Baltics for years, most notably Estonia.

The idea that Putin's ambitions stop at Ukraine is laughable.
 
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