The Labour Government

[Churchlawtonblue]

No. A child who inherits a farm doesn't have to be working on the farm beforehand so may not necessarily 'lose their livelihood'

True, but in family owned farms that is the scenario for many , and the issue that is causing the main problem as far as I can see.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Any farm that has produced food use there fields should be exempt. it's the likes of Dyson who owns 1000 of acres of land for tax dodge reasons should be hit hard!

He would just start token farming.

 

[waspish]

I'd tend to disagree because the tax dodge could continue if like Dyson you have 36k acres and let them out to tenant farmers. Those farms produce food and in the meantime provide the actual land owner with a tool to avoid tax.

So producing food for our country giving job opportunities for people to farm the land?

For we should be as self sufficient as possible in this country!

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

True, but in family owned farms that is the scenario for many , and the issue that is causing the main problem as far as I can see.

Can they not sell off or lease out parcels of land?

If you inherit a house you don't have the option of selling off the extension.

In rare cases people, might have the option of selling off the back end of a long garden or letting out an annex.

 

[waspish]

I'm not sure I agree.

For a start, it's a fairly niche case that you would have to sell an entire farm to pay an IHT bill. By the time you get into the bills being really significant, it's almost certainly because you have a lot of land, and would only need to sell a small amount to pay the IHT. I still think we're being asked to conflate two contradictory 'farmers', the ones who earn no money are almost certainly not the ones who will have huge IHT bills.

Losing their livelihood is also a bit of a red herring. If they absolutely had to sell, then they'd be potentially be losing a business they care about, but surely they'd then be a very wealthy person? If we're being asked to accept that hugely valuable farms make almost no money, then they'd be a lot better off financially selling up.

Losing a longstanding family business may be tough, but if you come out of it as a multi-millionaire, who can retire the next day, then that's a better position than most of the country are in.

100% agree with all this! What we should not do is lose a producing farm to then becomes a housing estate!

 

[bluethrunthru]

So producing food for our country giving job opportunities for people to farm the land?

For we should be as self sufficient as possible in this country!

Nothing wrong with that I was just explaining how the posters proposal would mean doing that would mean a Singapore based tax exile could continue to avoid tax without lifting a finger

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I'm not sure I agree.

For a start, it's a fairly niche case that you would have to sell an entire farm to pay an IHT bill. By the time you get into the bills being really significant, it's almost certainly because you have a lot of land, and would only need to sell a small amount to pay the IHT. I still think we're being asked to conflate two contradictory 'farmers', the ones who earn no money are almost certainly not the ones who will have huge IHT bills.

Losing their livelihood is also a bit of a red herring. If they absolutely had to sell, then they'd be potentially be losing a business they care about, but surely they'd then be a very wealthy person? If we're being asked to accept that hugely valuable farms make almost no money, then they'd be a lot better off financially selling up.

Losing a longstanding family business may be tough, but if you come out of it as a multi-millionaire, who can retire the next day, then that's a better position than most of the country are in.

I didn't expect you to agree to be honest. Clearly there are going to be scenarios where what I said didn't apply. That's why I said may have to sell. Also why should a person be forced to sell a buiness they love, a family business to pay IHT.

That goes against all the arguments that have been discussed on here by others who have used the argument that IHT is fair as it doesn't affect the person who leaves it and the person who pays, as they are always better off. I don't recall anyone on here saying that people would have to sell their livelihood to pay the IHT bill?

Lots of people on here are using Clarkson and Dyson as examples as to why this is a suitable change in the IHT rules. Those people are completely missing the wider issue and the negative impacts this change will have on many others.

I notice many have the same stance over the NI rise and the WFA. Many of the same people see no issues with these changes simply as they have been brought in by the party they support. It's a bizarre combination of blind loyalty mixed with the politics of envy.

Reeves could could announced in the budget that the retirement age was being raised to 75 for everyone with immediate affect, and anyone who goes to the opera or ballet would have to pay 10% more in income tax. I gaurantee the usual suspects on here would be on here defending it.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Can they not sell off or lease out parcels of land?

If you inherit a house you don't have the option of selling off the extension.

In rare cases people, might have the option of selling off the back end of a long garden or letting out an annex.

They could but would the farm be viable?

 

[hilts]

The new flat screen tv and latest mobile phone on contract argument.

The lack of self awareness these last few months has been very amusing.

It's hard to look in a mirror when you live in a thick purple bubble.

 

[hilts]

No need to arrest them the thick pricks are displaying number plates. Just note them down and rather JSO them rock up on their doorsteps in a few weeks time like the Police do with racist rioters. I mean number plates for fucks sake - all revolutionaries had state registered identifiable plates don't they lol ???

Not scared off by copper blowing whistle, these people really having nothing to lose.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

True, but in family owned farms that is the scenario for many , and the issue that is causing the main problem as far as I can see.

Why not just make it the requirement that someone inheriting land free of tax has to have worked on the farm for X amount of hours or earned X percentage of their income from farming on that farm for X years before their relative died?

 

[hilts]

Of more concern from the same article.

‘Currently the government estimates 1.9 million pensioners - around 15% - are in relative poverty.’

My own view, for what is worth, is that the State pension should be a lot higher. The WFA should not be necessary.

I agree

The ultimare aim should be

Minmum wage going up which it is, the tax threshold should start going up
State pension should rise quickly

I was hoping we would be pushing people up not dragging people down.

If we have to drag though let's try and drag the right ones down a peg or two.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I agree

The ultimare aim should be

Minmum wage going up which it is, the tax threshold should start going up
State pension should rise quickly

I was hoping we would be pushing people up not dragging people down.

If we have to drag though let's try and drag the right ones down a peg or two.

Agreed .... never fails to amaze me that we have a ''living wage'' which is far higher than the State Pension which is supposed to be a ...... Living Wage.

 

[bluenova]

I didn't expect you to agree to be honest. Clearly there are going to be scenarios where what I said didn't apply. That's why I said may have to sell. Also why should a person be forced to sell a buiness they love, a family business to pay IHT.

That goes against all the arguments that have been discussed on here by others who have used the argument that IHT is fair as it doesn't affect the person who leaves it and the person who pays, as they are always better off. I don't recall anyone on here saying that people would have to sell their livelihood to pay the IHT bill?

Lots of people on here are using Clarkson and Dyson as examples as to why this is a suitable change in the IHT rules. Those people are completely missing the wider issue and the negative impacts this change will have on many others.

I notice many have the same stance over the NI rise and the WFA. Many of the same people see no issues with these changes simply as they have been brought in by the party they support. It's a bizarre combination of blind loyalty mixed with the politics of envy.

Reeves could could announced in the budget that the retirement age was being raised to 75 for everyone with immediate affect, and anyone who goes to the opera or ballet would have to pay 10% more in income tax. I gaurantee the usual suspects on here would be on here defending it.

I really don't understand any of that. My post was about why I didn't think it would affect the poorest farmers, and I gave my reasoning. We're being asked to believe that the numbers of farms affected is vastly different to those who have claimed in the past. I'd like to see the evidence for that, because the numbers just don't add up to me.

As for the party loyalty bit, given that it's aimed at rich people using farmland to avoid inheritance tax, I'd be amazed if the Tories had brought it in, but if they had I'd have applauded them. To me, it looks like the original Tory policy may have good intentions, but was used as a tax dodge, driving up prices of land, and making life more difficult for people who actually wanted to farm.

 

[hilts]

Agreed .... never fails to amaze me that we have a ''living wage'' which is far higher than the State Pension which is supposed to be a ...... Living Wage.

Agree

So far the vision appears to be fiddle around the edges and hope the global economy improves a lot.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Agreed .... never fails to amaze me that we have a ''living wage'' which is far higher than the State Pension which is supposed to be a ...... Living Wage.

The living wage is higher than the minimum wage. It's not economically possible under the current system to provide an equivalent to pensioners.

Living wage also takes into account accommodation costs which pensioners are less likely to have at the same level as the working age population.

 

[kaz7]

Yes, they all just rocked up, travelling to London from far and wide and stood around in the freezing cold because they had nothing else to do, didn't they ? How dare they have the nerve to protest about something that concerns them.

Did you read my post at all ?

 

[blueinsa]

So retail warning them of the cost to jobs Reeves budget will have, Farmers pissed off, Pensioners pissed off and now inflation up from 1.7% to 2.3% but it’s all ok apparently if you listen to Labour ministers with their scripted 3 word catchphrases and their supporters on here.

Our company alone is facing a £150000 hike thanks to Reeves next year at least.

By all means support the Labour Party over the Tories, I too voted Labour but please don’t defend the shit they’re coming up with at the moment because it’s disastrous and if you close your eyes you would be forgiven for thinking it’s the Tories doing this shit.

 

[Dereck Jeffries 3 wd]

So retail warning them of the cost to jobs Reeves budget will have, Farmers pissed off, Pensioners pissed off and now inflation up from 1.7% to 2.3% but it’s all ok apparently if you listen to Labour ministers with their scripted 3 word catchphrases and their supporters on here.

Our company alone is facing a £150000 hike thanks to Reeves next year at least.

By all means support the Labour Party over the Tories, I too voted Labour but please don’t defend the shit they’re coming up with at the moment because it’s disastrous and if you close your eyes you would be forgiven for thinking it’s the Tories doing this shit.

You can’t knock Rach from accounts! She very good with CV’s apparently!

 

[maxwellblue]

You can’t knock Rach from accounts! She very good with CV’s apparently!

The red robot didn't work in accounts and it shows, she worked in the complaints dept which should stand her in good stead as she's pissing plenty of people off.