The Labour Government

[mosssideblue]

Firstly, immigrants keep our services going. Health care, social care all rely on immigrant labour.

Secondly, immigrants contribute more to the fiscal ledger than they cost, families included. We’ve been importing labour since the year dot and the arguments against it are like Groundhog Day.

The weird thing is the UK integrates immigrants far better than most European nations. You only have to look at recent and current political party leaders in England, Scotland and Wales to see that.

We’re a funny old lot at times :)

Second para, are you sure?

 

[inbetween]

I wouldn’t say successive Govts have mismanaged immigration. The numbers that come here do so because there are jobs to be filled. It is supply and demand.

Brexit was always going to increase immigration because being in the EU allowed us to draw upon a larger labour pool that retains the ability to move back and forth without impediment. Additionally, once you close off that flexible labour pool and erect barriers to movement you incentivise immigrants to stay.

Railing against immigration or vowing to reduce numbers is akin to trying to prove the earth is flat. The numbers will always reflect demand and need. Trying to artificially suppress the numbers will lead to labour shortages and further depress the economy. The quickest ‘fix’ to reducing numbers would be to remove overseas students from the figures. Alternatively, we can damage the educational sector and encourage overseas students to go elsewhere and we should never underestimate the British desire for self-harm :)

At the end of the day that demand has been created as a result of stupid decisions which is sort of what I actually meant.

Stupid decision 1 was removing our access to a free labour market in Europe (Brexit). Stupid decision 2 has been disintegrating our education, health and support services to the degree that it seemingly cannot produce nor maintain enough skilled people.

There are 9m people in the UK who are either sick or don't want to work for whatever reason and often this is simply because those people can't get the help that they need. Instead of fixing that system we're instead choosing to sustain it by just replacing those people with immigrants. They're being forgotten in the name of growth and GDP.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Good if they did it properly.

This bill is a fudge in some ways. The companies that own rolling stock haven't been brought in, nor the Trainline who are talking millions out of the industry whilst selling illegal tickets forcing passengers to pay again.

Was just wondering as I’m not a train user. They seem to have done a few good things for rail, pay rise, etc, but it seems nobody is happy with it, either way.

 

[BobKowalski]

Second para, are you sure?

Yes. How much varies depending on methodology and, frankly, what result you are trying to get hence is a child born in the UK of immigrants a UK citizen? The Govt sees them as UK citizens thus not a ‘cost’. Anti-immigration people will argue they are not ‘proper’ UK citizens (usually, they mean non-white) and are a cost.

The fact remains a lot of service sectors rely on immigrant labour from Doctors to nurses to general workers. We have been importing labour from Ireland, WI, the Commonwealth and Europe since the year dot and it is the same tedious argument decade after decade. And every year we see a net inflow of immigrants. At some point it’s going to twig that they are here for a reason because it certainly isn’t the fucking weather.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Was just wondering as I’m not a train user. They seem to have done a few good things for rail, pay rise, etc, but it seems nobody is happy with it, either way.

Simplify train tickets structure and prices

More front line staff over reliance on smartphone apps

Bring rolling stock operators in house so capacity can be utilised correctly. There's hundreds of trains in sidings that could be used but the current system makes them too expensive to rent.

Increase BTP presence and give them the resources they need.

Treat it as a public service and serve communities better.

Remove the internal blame culture for delays.

The potential Is there for growth all over the country. The current system prohibits it.

There's a few ideas I'd like to see implemented working on it.

 

[BobKowalski]

At the end of the day that demand has been created as a result of stupid decisions which is sort of what I actually meant.

Stupid decision 1 was removing our access to a free labour market in Europe (Brexit). Stupid decision 2 has been disintegrating our education, health and support services to the degree that it seemingly cannot produce nor maintain enough skilled people.

There are 9m people in the UK who are either sick or don't want to work for whatever reason and often this is simply because those people can't get the help that they need. Instead of fixing that system we're instead choosing to sustain it by just replacing those people with immigrants. They're being forgotten in the name of growth and GDP.

Fair enough, and I have no issue with trying to help people back into work. As long as it’s help and not forcing sick people into work. I have no desire to be ‘helped’ in my hour of need by a person in worse shape than I am :)

 

[BobKowalski]

Treat it as a public service and serve communities better…

That should be its mission statement. The purpose of transport infrastructure is to facilitate the movement of people and freight around the country thereby serving the needs of communities and industry for the benefit of us all.

It is not intended to produce profits for shareholders.

 

[metalblue]

I wouldn’t say successive Govts have mismanaged immigration. The numbers that come here do so because there are jobs to be filled. It is supply and demand.

They have mismanaged it. They’ve failed to ensure local communities could support them in the local GPs, schools, hospitals etc. these institutions could absorb it for a time but eventually the numbers overwhelm the capacity. And what do the politicians do? Blame the immigrants. Great work if you can get it.

 

[The perfect fumble]

In the USA and increasingly in Europe the left has disappeared up its own arse. Appeals for class solidarity to a fragmented and increasingly de-unionised labour force don't work anymore, not that well heeled social democrats had their heart in it anyways, so now they slice and dice identity politics, rummaging around in a pick n mix of candy coloured bullshit, desperate to cobble together a compelling message to a constituency they've made up, or stolen from the campuses of Southern California, a constituency, certainly in the UK, that simply isn't there.

The left is engaged in a surreal exercise of confecting a world that does not exist, no wonder they're completely gobsmacked when folk vote for Brexit or re-elect Trump or see voters across Europe and the globe, voting in huge numbers for populists and hard line right wingers.

Starmer gorged himself on the pick n mix bullshit to get elected Labour leader then shat it out rapidly after winning, emerging as Mr Bland for the general election, servant of the common good, a politician whose only virtue was he was not the Tories.

So now, of course, he's shot by both sides....

Fuck him.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Simplify train tickets structure and prices

More front line staff over reliance on smartphone apps

Bring rolling stock operators in house so capacity can be utilised correctly. There's hundreds of trains in sidings that could be used but the current system makes them too expensive to rent.

Increase BTP presence and give them the resources they need.

Treat it as a public service and serve communities better.

Remove the internal blame culture for delays.

The potential Is there for growth all over the country. The current system prohibits it.

There's a few ideas I'd like to see implemented working on it.

Well, at least the road to a better service has been started, let’s see what we end up with.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

In the USA and increasingly in Europe the left has disappeared up its own arse. Appeals for class solidarity to a fragmented and increasingly de-unionised labour force don't work anymore, not that well heeled social democrats had their heart in it anyways, so now they slice and dice identity politics, rummaging around in a pick n mix of candy coloured bullshit, desperate to cobble together a compelling message to a constituency they've made up, or stolen from the campuses of Southern California, a constituency, certainly in the UK, that simply isn't there.

The left is engaged in a surreal exercise of confecting a world that does not exist, no wonder they're completely gobsmacked when folk vote for Brexit or re-elect Trump or see voters across Europe and the globe, voting in huge numbers for populists and hard line right wingers.

Starmer gorged himself on the pick n mix bullshit to get elected Labour leader then shat it out rapidly after winning, emerging as Mr Bland for the general election, servant of the common good, a politician whose only virtue was he was not the Tories.

So now, of course, he's shot by both sides....

Fuck him.

So who are you marrying and avoiding out of Owen Jones and the Concrete grower?

 

[The perfect fumble]

So who are you marrying and avoiding out of Owen Jones and the Concrete grower?

I keep my options open...

 

[bluethrunthru]

I don't think people are actually against immigration, a major part of it is with the 'type' of people coming. That comes from the continued post-Brexit sentiment of xenophobia and now the new rejection of multi-culturalism.

spent the morning in hospital again - Indonesian, Malaysian, Nigerian, Rwandan, etc, etc, etc - superb care from all - thats the "type" these people don't want because they don't look like them - pity "they" can't decline them treatment

 

[Bazzmand Show]

spent the morning in hospital again - Indonesian, Malaysian, Nigerian, Rwandan, etc, etc, etc - superb care from all - thats the "type" these people don't want because they don't look like them - pity "they" can't decline them treatment

People who are coming into the country to fill positions are needed. Are you trying to suggest that the 1.2 million people who have arrived in the last 2 years are all filling required roles in the workforce?

Because they simply aren't.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Is the nationalisation of the railways a good or bad thing?

a good thing because if things continue to be shit users who are voters can apply pressure on the owners (HM Govt) to improve things.

Under the current model things get shit - remain shit - get shittier - but we previously had a Govt who didn't care and just let the private owners coin in more and more for themselves.

 

[bluethrunthru]

People who are coming into the country to fill positions are needed. Are you trying to suggest that the 1.2 million people who have arrived in the last 2 years are all filling required roles in the workforce?

Because they simply aren't.

You would have to tell me what jobs that 1.2 million took. I mean quite a few will have come into the UK finance industry - do we have no-one from the UK capable of banking?

 

[blueinsa]

spent the morning in hospital again - Indonesian, Malaysian, Nigerian, Rwandan, etc, etc, etc - superb care from all - thats the "type" these people don't want because they don't look like them - pity "they" can't decline them treatment

Did you make a point of asking them their nationalities so you could write this post or is it yet another “story” of yours that fits the narrative?

 

[blueinsa]

In the USA and increasingly in Europe the left has disappeared up its own arse. Appeals for class solidarity to a fragmented and increasingly de-unionised labour force don't work anymore, not that well heeled social democrats had their heart in it anyways, so now they slice and dice identity politics, rummaging around in a pick n mix of candy coloured bullshit, desperate to cobble together a compelling message to a constituency they've made up, or stolen from the campuses of Southern California, a constituency, certainly in the UK, that simply isn't there.

The left is engaged in a surreal exercise of confecting a world that does not exist, no wonder they're completely gobsmacked when folk vote for Brexit or re-elect Trump or see voters across Europe and the globe, voting in huge numbers for populists and hard line right wingers.

Starmer gorged himself on the pick n mix bullshit to get elected Labour leader then shat it out rapidly after winning, emerging as Mr Bland for the general election, servant of the common good, a politician whose only virtue was he was not the Tories.

So now, of course, he's shot by both sides....

Fuck him.

Excellent post.

 

[bluenova]

People who are coming into the country to fill positions are needed. Are you trying to suggest that the 1.2 million people who have arrived in the last 2 years are all filling required roles in the workforce?

Because they simply aren't.

The vast majority (80%+) were split fairly equally between students and work visas.

The students were in large part the backlog of students that couldn't come over during Covid, and the University sector being in desperate need of cash.

The work visas were primarily in the health sector.

 

[hilts]

Second para, are you sure?

No he's not buf it sounds good to him everytime he repeats it.

It's a doozy we need more people for our public services, now we have even more people so we need even more people for our public services. Repeat forever presumably which is obviously impossible but that's other people's problem.

What does more people mean? More units of production and more consumers.

I wonder who benefits from more consumers?

No downside to consumption is there, its limitless:-)