The Labour Government

[The perfect fumble]

We can make it a minibus and others can join you, looks like we already have a third person. Swap all you medium income middle class moaners for some nice happy immigrants who don't drag the place down.

I've not engaged with you in this thread, or any thread for that matter, in some time. I occasionally bat off one of your unwanted "jokes", but I always regret it.

The way you try to police the politics forum, as you're doing now, with your fake air of moral superiority is particularly irritating, but it's your certainty that really annoys, you have such a closed mind, you don't seem to posses any intellectual curiosity, you never attempt to see an issue as others might see it, you don't think you're right, you know your right and anyone who disagrees is vile and stupid and wrong. Except I don't fit and I'm brighter and smarter than you, and you know it, that's why you never engage in a real conversation, instead you snipe and insult, in short you bring the sum total of fuck all to the forum.

Get this straight, I'm angry with the left because I love the left and I hate how it's been hijacked by unthinking apparatchiks like you. I despise the right with an intensity you can't come close to imagining, so don't get on your high horse with me and go annoy someone else.

 

[bluethrunthru]

View attachment 139284

Yeah sorry to correct you but I was referring to the Trust overall not just the hospitals as a whole. Even this contradicts you and is the report from 4 years beyond the one you quote. In fact it mirrors the migrations figs - 2021 = 10k in the Hospitals - 2024 15k. Those recruits are from where? There are so many more people who work outside a hospital but still work for the Trust.

About University Hospitals Tees - South Tees Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

University Hospitals Tees has a combined budget of £1.2billion and more than 15,000 staff.

www.southtees.nhs.uk

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I've not engaged with you in this thread, or any thread for that matter, in some time. I occasionally bat off one of your unwanted "jokes", but I always regret it.

The way you try to police the politics forum, as you're doing now, with your fake air of moral superiority is particularly irritating, but it's your certainty that really annoys, you have such a closed mind, you don't seem to posses any intellectual curiosity, you never attempt to see an issue as others might see it, you don't think you're right, you know your right and anyone who disagrees is vile and stupid and wrong. Except I don't fit and I'm brighter and smarter than you, and you know it, that's why you never engage in a real conversation, instead you snipe and insult, in short you bring the sum total of fuck all to the forum.

Get this straight, I'm angry with the left because I love the left and I hate how it's been hijacked by unthinking apparatchiks like you. I despise the right with an intensity you can't come close to imagining, so don't get on your high horse with me and go annoy someone else.

You've been preaching and boring us all with your nonsensical rants for months.

You talk past people, you like to pretend people are actually the simplistic impression that you think they are.

I'd feel sorry for anyone who took the bollocks you type seriously because it's dripping with hatred and self pity.

Even this point about the left is bollocks. I've never been a member of any party or group.

If only you were as smart as you think you are. You wouldn't have wasted your twilight years ranting about crossdressers with all the vitriol of a Westboro Baptist.


You sad, bitter old fool.

 

[The perfect fumble]

You've been preaching and boring us all with your nonsensical rants for months.

You talk past people, you like to pretend people are actually the simplistic impression that you think they are.

I'd feel sorry for anyone who took the bollocks you type seriously because it's dripping with hatred and self pity.

Even this point about the left is bollocks. I've never been a member of any party or group.

If only you were as smart as you think you are. You wouldn't have wasted your twilight years ranting about crossdressers with all the vitriol of a Westboro Baptist.


You sad, bitter old fool.

Who are you writing this for? Clearly not for me.

Do you imagine you're somehow playing to the gallery? What gallery would that be?

If you have anything to say then say it because you consider it worth saying, fuck off with your grandstanding, no one is interested.

 

[metalblue]

Yeah sorry to correct you but I was referring to the Trust overall not just the hospitals as a whole. Even this contradicts you and is the report from 4 years beyond the one you quote. In fact it mirrors the migrations figs - 2021 = 10k in the Hospitals - 2024 15k. Those recruits are from where? There are so many more people who work outside a hospital but still work for the Trust.

About University Hospitals Tees - South Tees Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

University Hospitals Tees has a combined budget of £1.2billion and more than 15,000 staff.

www.southtees.nhs.uk

What the fuck are you on? That website says the trust - hospital and community services - employs 15k people in total. Not 15k immigrants, which it doesn’t even talk about in that link anyway.

It’s a far cry from the 122k Asians you confidently predicted it employed but a page ago.

You don’t know what you’re taking about - just leave it there before you make even more of a tit of yourself than normal. You’ve made shit up to try and create some fake narrative and now want to die on the hill.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Who are you writing this for? Clearly not for me.

Do you imagine you're somehow playing to the gallery? What gallery would that be?

If you have anything to say then say it because you consider it worth saying, fuck off with your grandstanding, no one is interested.

 

[metalblue]

I've not engaged with you in this thread, or any thread for that matter, in some time. I occasionally bat off one of your unwanted "jokes", but I always regret it.

The way you try to police the politics forum, as you're doing now, with your fake air of moral superiority is particularly irritating, but it's your certainty that really annoys, you have such a closed mind, you don't seem to posses any intellectual curiosity, you never attempt to see an issue as others might see it, you don't think you're right, you know your right and anyone who disagrees is vile and stupid and wrong. Except I don't fit and I'm brighter and smarter than you, and you know it, that's why you never engage in a real conversation, instead you snipe and insult, in short you bring the sum total of fuck all to the forum.

Get this straight, I'm angry with the left because I love the left and I hate how it's been hijacked by unthinking apparatchiks like you. I despise the right with an intensity you can't come close to imagining, so don't get on your high horse with me and go annoy someone else.

Leftie tosser ;)

 

[Vic]

It does sound like a tall story. I can’t imagine anyone going around asking the staff what country they came from, would come across as a racist nutter.

You might. I come across as someone interested in their story.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

.

And if it helps the doubters look it up. South Tees Trust has employees from over 200 countries including 122k from Asia - but yeah I sneaked into the HoC and doctored the library there to back my claims up.

A made up story backed by made up numbers lol.

 

[Vic]

Yeah sorry to correct you but I was referring to the Trust overall not just the hospitals as a whole. Even this contradicts you and is the report from 4 years beyond the one you quote. In fact it mirrors the migrations figs - 2021 = 10k in the Hospitals - 2024 15k. Those recruits are from where? There are so many more people who work outside a hospital but still work for the Trust.

About University Hospitals Tees - South Tees Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

University Hospitals Tees has a combined budget of £1.2billion and more than 15,000 staff.

www.southtees.nhs.uk

I think you might have meant 12k but typed 122k.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I think you might have meant 12k but typed 122k.

spent the morning with a camera up my arse after 24hrs fasting lol - mistakes can be made .......

 

[The perfect fumble]

Did you make a point of asking them their nationalities so you could write this post or is it yet another “story” of yours that fits the narrative?

You shouldn't be so dismissive, the security staff at my entrance to the Etihad are Nigerians, I recognised their accent coz I used to live there, I asked them if they were Nigerians and they said they were, they're Yoruba. Now every time I see them we talk about Nigerian high life, jollof rice and Gulder beer and we briefly chew the fat, they're pleased that someone knows about their country and has positive vibes about it, coz guess what? They're proud Nigerians and they love their country, it's not a big thing.

 

[Vic]

.....Secondly, immigrants contribute more to the fiscal ledger than they cost, families included. We’ve been importing labour since the year dot and the arguments against it are like Groundhog Day.

...

About Norwich - a city which in the 16th century was about one third immigrants.

England is a land of immigrants. The very first human beings set foot here from Doggerland to hunt 10,000 years ago. With the mighty Ice Age glaciers retreating, the land was perfect for hunting large elk and mammoth. People have been coming from other lands to settle here ever since. With the Beaker People, Celts, Romans, Saxons, Anglo Scandinavians, Normans and many other cultures coming here from other countries, we have always been a mix of peoples. Norwich is no exception. Our own immigrant settlers have appeared in Norwich since the Normans arrived in the 11th Century. They brought French Jewish communities to help with finances. In the 1500s, from mainland Europe, came Protestant refugees. They brought Norwich large sums of money, to the point where our city became second only to London in terms of wealth. These people became known locally as The Strangers. Like any new settlers, they received a sizeable amount of xenophobia, as seems to be an unfortunate common theme among those less accepting. Despite this, they made such a mark on our city that we still celebrate them today.

Manchester was a quarter Irish 150 years ago, and a lot of the rest from other parts of Britain.

Once more, the roll call of immigrant wealth-creators in the NW in the 19th century before we restricted immigration: Beyer-Peacock, Renold Chains, Clayton Aniline, ICI (Brunner-Mond), Ferranti...

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Fuck me! After reading that I'd pack your bags and drive you to the airport myself!

It was said of Thatcher that she loved the country, she just hated the people in it. You strike me more like Blair, he was Prime Minister of a "better" country that existed entirely in his head, he was often disappointed how the people who actually live in it fell short and he still is.

The Blair years certainly made things better for a lot of society....

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Firstly, immigrants keep our services going. Health care, social care all rely on immigrant labour.

Secondly, immigrants contribute more to the fiscal ledger than they cost, families included. We’ve been importing labour since the year dot and the arguments against it are like Groundhog Day.

The weird thing is the UK integrates immigrants far better than most European nations. You only have to look at recent and current political party leaders in England, Scotland and Wales to see that.

We’re a funny old lot at times :)

Do you seriously believe that we are successfully integrating this ammount of people at the rate they are coming in ? That is clearly utter nonsense. The facts with regards to lack of housing and the waits and strains this is putting services for education, social and health care simply do not back up that assertion. These issues are simply swept under the carpet when people say things like this. Yet in the very next thread you and others are complaining about them and blaming everyone else including the previous government , apart from labour of course under who's government mass immigration took off massively in the 1990s. You simply refuse to see the link and blindly only see the positives.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

About Norwich - a city which in the 16th century was about one third immigrants.

England is a land of immigrants. The very first human beings set foot here from Doggerland to hunt 10,000 years ago. With the mighty Ice Age glaciers retreating, the land was perfect for hunting large elk and mammoth. People have been coming from other lands to settle here ever since. With the Beaker People, Celts, Romans, Saxons, Anglo Scandinavians, Normans and many other cultures coming here from other countries, we have always been a mix of peoples. Norwich is no exception. Our own immigrant settlers have appeared in Norwich since the Normans arrived in the 11th Century. They brought French Jewish communities to help with finances. In the 1500s, from mainland Europe, came Protestant refugees. They brought Norwich large sums of money, to the point where our city became second only to London in terms of wealth. These people became known locally as The Strangers. Like any new settlers, they received a sizeable amount of xenophobia, as seems to be an unfortunate common theme among those less accepting. Despite this, they made such a mark on our city that we still celebrate them today.

Manchester was a quarter Irish 150 years ago, and a lot of the rest from other parts of Britain.

Once more, the roll call of immigrant wealth-creators in the NW in the 19th century before we restricted immigration: Beyer-Peacock, Renold Chains, Clayton Aniline, ICI (Brunner-Mond), Ferranti...

Very true we area land of immigrants and undoubtedly better for it, however there is clearly a rate at which immigration reaches a point where successful integration is not possible. I would suggest that anyone who thinks we are capable of successfully integrating the current number of people coming in is living in cloud cukkooland. The facts simply do not back up this statement.

If these recently released numbers are sustainable why is the new government criticising them?

And if you still think they are sustainable, can I ask what do you think is the maximum level/ rate of immigration above which integration would cause problems, if you think therenis such a level? I would suggest that rate is about 50,000 per annum, primarilly based on our capacity to build housing and the current backlog in this area.

 

[ganganvince]

Yeah sorry to correct you but I was referring to the Trust overall not just the hospitals as a whole. Even this contradicts you and is the report from 4 years beyond the one you quote. In fact it mirrors the migrations figs - 2021 = 10k in the Hospitals - 2024 15k. Those recruits are from where? There are so many more people who work outside a hospital but still work for the Trust.

About University Hospitals Tees - South Tees Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

University Hospitals Tees has a combined budget of £1.2billion and more than 15,000 staff.

www.southtees.nhs.uk

You said 122k Asians.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

You said 122k Asians.

We can only assume Asians was a mistake aswell, infact the whole post was clearly a mistake as it was in all likelihood a typical made up story by the poster.

 

[metalblue]

I think you might have meant 12k but typed 122k.

12k Asians work in a trust that employs 15k? Come on now Vic, you’re better than that.

 

[Kompany Car]

Very true we area land of immigrants and undoubtedly better for it, however there is clearly a rate at which immigration reaches a point where successful integration is not possible. I would suggest that anyone who thinks we are capable of successfully integrating the current number of people coming in is living in cloud cukkooland. The facts simply do not back up this statement.

If these recently released numbers are sustainable why is the new government criticising them?

And if you still think they are sustainable, can I ask what do you think is the maximum level/ rate of immigration above which integration would cause problems, if you think therenis such a level? I would suggest that rate is about 50,000 per annum, primarilly based on our capacity to build housing and the current backlog in this area.

The following is with respect to migrants not asylum seekers or those often referred to as illegal migrants.

Purely from a financial perspective, when you look at the figures for immigrants into the UK across the papers that you can find online its a confused picture, we have migrants from inside the EU mixed with non EU migrants all being treated as one group by some papers, others focus on the individuals and not any of the extended family/dependents who migrate with them. Others try to look at the future when it comes to migrants and make assertions that their children will all be employed. All of these aspects make it very difficult to get a clear perspective of immigration and the impact on the public purse.

Depending on how you cut it, taking all migrants together including those from the EU, they are clear net positive contributors. If you split out Non EU you find that they provide substantially less net benefit and depending on skills can be significantly net negative.

Unfortunately low skilled migrants tend to be from parts of the world with a culture of large families and high birth rates. Whilst there have been waves of immigration into the UK over many centuries, those pre war had no option but to work and to earn sufficient to feed their families. There was no welfare state, no support net. If you were just looking at the cold hard numbers there would be a case to say that low skilled migrants should only be allowed if they have no dependents or are willing to come unaccompanied, from a humanitarian perspective its obviously much harder to make the case.

There is a discussion around all of this in the following article, but the bottom line is that the data set is incomplete and studies contain assumptions which are yet to be validated.

Migration Observatory Oxford

The only thing that is clear is that high skilled workers are positive contributors to the UK regardless of where they are from, but we already know that. The best scenario from an economic sense are migrants who are highly skilled aged between 20 and 50 with no children.

Whilst we can look at the population pyramid and say we dont have enough people entering the jobs market to support those in retirement, the large elephant in the room is the impact of AI, ultimately changing how we think about the skill sets we need and even how many people are actually required by businesses.