Former Academy Kids

Gorton_Tubster said:
Not a single one of you lot give us a heads up on who is THE most important player before we lose them, instead you wait until the media trigger you. Tell us wise ones, who in the youth setup right now is going to be the biggest star of the PL in the next few years?

fkin embarrasing
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No one knows who is going to be a top level player in 2 or 3 years time. That is why you have to provide plan/path for these kids who may possibly make it. That goes for any young player at any club.
If we are paying their wages and they are under contract, you can send them on loan or sell with buyback. It probably takes 2 seasons of regular football to gauge how good a player may turn out to be and that's not guaranteed.
The trick is not to lose them until you are sure that they are not up to thd standard we need.

You mentioned Palmer and Rogers specifically.
We had an option to buy back Rogers for 11m but didn't take it up.
Palmer wanted to go on loan which I think would have been a better decision. It would have given him the necessary game time to prove himself.
We sold him with no buy back clause inserted.

From my perspective , this isn't anything driven by the media. I know very little about the youths and academy other than a few games/ highlights I watch. This season probably accentuates the problem as the squad size, poor form , injuries and player tiredness is crying out for younger, fitter and faster players.

I'm kind of agreeing with most posters, even though they may have conflicting views.
How do you bridge the gap between a potentially good young prospect and the finished article.
Selling them all off isn't the answer.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Do you care to mention any of our youth players who are NOW ready to be included in the team before they leave and we lose a bargain?

I mean when Palmer was playing for us I heard NO ONE saying we have to keep him he will tear up the PL. Same with Rogers, same with with each and EVERY young player who has left us - The general consensus has been its the best move for them. Then the media pipe up (Becuase they like to show City failure) and you change your tune like leaf on the wind twats who cant think and see for themselves. Literally being told what to think, by an enemy media that hate City.

Not a single one of you lot give us a heads up on who is THE most important player before we lose them, instead you wait until the media trigger you. Tell us wise ones, who in the youth setup right now is going to be the biggest star of the PL in the next few years?

fkin embarrasing
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C'mon.....be fair.
I specifically said I didn't know how good any of these players were as I'd barely seen them. It's the coaches and manager who are in a position to make these assessments as they see them daily for years.
It's daft to think fans can know which young players to keep and who to release. We've no idea as we've no evidence to use to evaluate them.

Player assessment (purchases and releases) is the hardest thing in football to get right & it's also the most important thing.
City have been brilliant at it for nearly 10 years and I give them huge credit for it.
It had to end and it has. Shit happens.
I'm not actually mad with City about it, they outperformed in player assessment for so long it was amazing.
 
WallyA said:
Rogers is not the hill to die on people.

He looked fine in the academt but was never considered special.

What people should be more upset about is the special talenta we let leave, I still think Brahim Diaz should be at the club, that kid cooked every chance Pep gave him.

Other obvious ones are Palmer and Lavia of course, these are the ones where the club truly fucked up.

Not Morgan Rogers, he was never as obvious as the others.
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Lavia was 18 when he left. He has been gone two and a half years and is only now beginning to emerge as a talent. That was not necessarily a mistake; we will see.

We have a lot of talent in the academy right now and I hope that we will find a way to integrate them. It may need the new DOF to make that happen as a matter of procedure.
 
Some of us have named academy players who we believe could make it with the first team. It is true though that player development is often not linear: real talents fall by the wayside and others emerge who never stood out.
If I were to pick out players right now who I would like to see integrated into the first team in the next 2-3 years it would be: Mukasa, Mfuni, Braithwaite, Headley, Reigan Heskey, Jacob Wright and McAidoo.

Between them, there is a lot of talent, IMO.
 
I've been watching the youth team fairly religiously since about 2008, when I attended the win against Chelsea. And since then it's become much easier to predict future stars.

Back then it was fairly obvious that Mee, Trippier and Sturridge had Premier League potential. Though more may have been expected from the likes of Weiss, McDermott and Ball / Nimley.

However, since our academy has been really top level following those years, we've seen even more standout prospects. Brahim, Phil, Cole, Sancho, THB, T Doyle, Lavia, etc, etc. The list goes on.

It's a great business model and possibly unfortunate for some of those prospects that they've coincided with the best team we'll ever have. Blocking their path and then leading to us finding deals to suit them / us.

Feels like we've reached a point now where this needs to change and we must do more to keep and nurture our best prospects. Not just one or two who Pep likes the most. He knows the best ones, e.g Phil, Bobb, Rico, or ones with very specific skill sets, but discards any that are more physical or don't excel as much in the pockets.

As I've said in other threads (or maybe in here), I've got a similar view as @oldius, we have a few stars coming in Mukasa, R. Heskey and Mfuni, etc, and we can't lose all of them. They have all the attributes for the PL.

Below that age it's been mooted a special generation is coming. They need a pathway to avoid stripping another team containing 5 or 6 PL players in future, like our FA Youth Cup winning side of 2020. As others have said, I'd rather be losing now with a team of academy players than those who look like their legs have gone.
 
mandubs said:
C'mon.....be fair.
I specifically said I didn't know how good any of these players were as I'd barely seen them. It's the coaches and manager who are in a position to make these assessments as they see them daily for years.
It's daft to think fans can know which young players to keep and who to release. We've no idea as we've no evidence to use to evaluate them.

Player assessment (purchases and releases) is the hardest thing in football to get right & it's also the most important thing.
City have been brilliant at it for nearly 10 years and I give them huge credit for it.
It had to end and it has. Shit happens.
I'm not actually mad with City about it, they outperformed in player assessment for so long it was amazing.
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This thread would seem to put the lie to that ;)
 
citymad said:
Ha I remember Keegan signing a player after a YouTube video. I think he was Matt Vuoso. Disagree with you about Rogers he’s top player. England has three top quality, central midfielders Rice, Bellingham, and now Rogers.
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Vuoso actually had a very respectable career back in South America he scored a load of goals. I think his problem was we had Anelka, Wanchope, Goater, Huckerby and Macken already!
 
give it to gordon said:
I'm confused as to why we seem to have a fair few ex academy kids doing well at other clubs.
We don't seem to be willing to give them a chance here
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Because apart from one massive mistake, they're simply good players, but not our required standard (well, when it was elite). All this, but try them, give them a go etc. Any coach/manager worth their salt, knows within 15 minutes what level they'll be.
 
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Kippax Street 1880 said:
He forced him into the starting line up because everyone else was injured is how I remember it.
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Me too and he was class for the youth team, you could see he was an old head on young shoulders and could do a job for us. We were at the bare bones at the time so it all made sense. He is an elite level player, im not sure what Pep has done wrong here. Maybe the fact we prob knew he would go back to barca and not sign the contract we shouldnt have gave him the minutes unless he signed a contract but we were desperate for a defender due to injuries.
 
Kippax Street 1880 said:
He forced him into the starting line up because everyone else was injured is how I remember it.
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He started against Lyon (we lost 3-1) we had Otamendi and Stones on the bench…
He started against Arsenal in the semi of the FA Cup (we lost 2-0) we had Otamendi and Stones on the bench…

Google is your friend.
 
Dubciteh said:
Me too and he was class for the youth team, you could see he was an old head on young shoulders and could do a job for us. We were at the bare bones at the time so it all made sense. He is an elite level player, im not sure what Pep has done wrong here. Maybe the fact we prob knew he would go back to barca and not sign the contract we shouldnt have gave him the minutes unless he signed a contract but we were desperate for a defender due to injuries.
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We were not at the bare bones. Google is your friend here. Otamendi and Stones on the bench. Even Fern could have played that position.

He was forced in because Pep anted gun to sign a new contract. End of.
 
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oldius said:
Some of us have named academy players who we believe could make it with the first team. It is true though that player development is often not linear: real talents fall by the wayside and others emerge who never stood out.
If I were to pick out players right now who I would like to see integrated into the first team in the next 2-3 years it would be: Mukasa, Mfuni, Braithwaite, Headley, Reigan Heskey, Jacob Wright and McAidoo.

Between them, there is a lot of talent, IMO.
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With all due respect to them, City are in the top 3 best teams in the world. Making it here is not like making it even at a club like Villa. If we get one player out of the Academy into the first XI every 5 years then we're doing well.
 
Damocles said:
With all due respect to them, City are in the top 3 best teams in the world. Making it here is not like making it even at a club like Villa. If we get one player out of the Academy into the first XI every 5 years then we're doing well.
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Agreed. But we also need squad players. We cannot have a squad of world stars, but we definitely could have one or two academy starters.
 
Dubciteh said:
Me too and he was class for the youth team, you could see he was an old head on young shoulders and could do a job for us. We were at the bare bones at the time so it all made sense. He is an elite level player, im not sure what Pep has done wrong here. Maybe the fact we prob knew he would go back to barca and not sign the contract we shouldnt have gave him the minutes unless he signed a contract but we were desperate for a defender due to injuries.
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I thought it was quite funny really, everyone went from raving about him to calling him shit when it was apparent he wasn't signing a long term deal with us. He definitely had potential but too small and slow to be a truly elite defender, especially in England.
 
Damocles said:
With all due respect to them, City are in the top 3 best teams in the world. Making it here is not like making it even at a club like Villa. If we get one player out of the Academy into the first XI every 5 years then we're doing well.
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Of course it’s not easy to make it into the first team, but then again we’ve signed players like nunes, Doku and Philips, when we had academy players with more talent

No team has a squad just of world class, ready made players
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
Of course it’s not easy to make it into the first team, but then again we’ve signed players like nunes, Doku and Philips, when we had academy players with more talent

No team has a squad just of world class, ready made players
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There are no players better in the Academy than Nunes, Doku and Phillips. I can't think of anyone we've had in the Academy at the time of their signings that fits the bill either. The leap from youth to senior football is an incredible gap
 
Damocles said:
There are no players better in the Academy than Nunes, Doku and Phillips. I can't think of anyone we've had in the Academy at the time of their signings that fits the bill either. The leap from youth to senior football is an incredible gap
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Im not necessarily talking about current academy players. For me Palmer and Lavia are much more talented then what we have signed. They might have needed a bit more time to develop, but talent wise there ahead of say Philips or Doku

As I said they don’t have to be world class. I’d much rather see wright in midfield over Gundogan who’s been shocking or Mcatee instead of Bernardo. I don’t think we’d be worse off.

There’s always a risk with young players, but at some point you give them a chance, especially when the senior players have been terrible. Think long term instead of short.
 
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