I would but being embarrassed by it but it having any tangible impact or indication of their team as a whole? Nah.
I always assumed it would just be taken from the PLs cash reserves.I'd like to know who foots the bill shared amongst the pl members as of today or new promoted members in may who didn't even vote for sanctions or even ones relegated 2 season ago
Good luck Masters sending invoice out
Pretty tricky to get them from the Cayman islands.I always assumed it would just be taken from the PLs cash reserves.
Thanks will try next time I need to quote a passage.Highlight the relevant bit then the menu will pop up that will include Quote hit that
Go to a new post and select insert quotes you will then see the quote(s) you can chose the one or more you like the insert to complete
This is all true. Perhaps I've just been disappointed seeing this type of error too many times over the years. But you are definitely right that it is surprising it got out of the door especially as presumably someone decided the comms plan was to make 115 the centre piece when it wasn't even the right number!interesting how this is viewed from different perspectives.
From a purely legal standpoint I see why you view it as having no tangible impact on the case itself.
However, I see it as the thin end of the wedge in terms of it revealing a highly-dysfunctional organisation.
From a comms perspective, issuing a release of this gravity with factual/legal errors is a never event that can’t happen with basic policies and procedures in place.
Someone has pressed “send” on a press release (arguably the most contentious press release ever issued by the organisation) without having assurance over its accuracy.
That is simply astonishing.
1) A comms dept operating with even the most basic safeguards would never issue anything externally with a legal implication without having sign-off from legal.
2) A legal department demands oversight and sign off of anything issued externally with a legal implication (certainly something of this profile)
3) The CEO / board ensures correct policies/procedures in place. For a release of this importance you would imagine they would seek assurance these policies had been followed before final sign off.
The only way that press release gets issued is if all three of the above points are absent, otherwise the errors are caught and rectified.
To have such a fundamental failure on all three accounts can only happen in an organisation with appalling internal governance and ultimately shambolic leadership.
They were desperate to hit the morning headlines on a date that is very poignant for Manchester and all football fans. They knew what they were doing, no one has ever mentioned the errors outside those with a City bias.This is all true. Perhaps I've just been disappointed seeing this type of error too many times over the years. But you are definitely right that it is surprising it got out of the door especially as presumably someone decided the comms plan was to make 115 the centre piece when it wasn't even the right number!
I understand that the very nature of any actionable charges is thought to be hostile, but I still believe there are levels to this and that the Prem hasn't done anything to keep the "hostilities" to a somewhat lesser degree. In fact, I could argue they've done the opposite, an example being the way the charges were put into the public's domain. They were put out to cause maximum effect (while even doing a quite sloppy job of it).I think the PL has tried to allow a typically hostile investigation and then piece of serious litigation to sit side by side with the day to day business of dealing with a shareholder and competition member. The PLs office has images of City’s success all over - pictures of the title wins, Haaland, the trophy with blue ribbons. All this sits side by side with the PL trying to wear its regulators hat. Every investigation is hostile as is every piece of litigation.
The reality is that if the PL win, their hostility is justified. If not, it will be seen as a circus. Again this is like most Serious Fraud Office and other regulatory cases.
Not sure the last part is exactly correct as any prosecutor, including any regulatory one, is bound by the prosecutors’ code the principles of which include (and I paraphrase somewhat) to not treat a conviction as a ‘win’ and not to win at all costs (not that it’s always abided by). I don’t get the sense that ethos has been followed by the PL at all, and further if they were applying a public interest test as regulatory prosecutors are required to (but again don’t always follow) then it’s highly doubtful many or even any of these charges would have met that test, given the fallout in relation to the allegations and the time elapsed since the putative breaches.The reality is that if the PL win, their hostility is justified. If not, it will be seen as a circus. Again this is like most Serious Fraud Office and other regulatory cases.
Emphasis added.2.4 Prosecutors must be fair, independent and objective. They must not let any personal views about the ethnic or national origin, gender, disability, age, religion or belief, political views, sexual orientation, or gender identity of the suspect, victim or any witness influence their decisions. Neither must prosecutors be affected by improper or undue pressure from any source. Prosecutors must always act in the interests of justice and not solely for the purpose of obtaining a conviction.
It’s absolutely mental how many mugs are fooled into assuming a level of guilt simply down to the number of charges, without actually having any idea whatsoever of what the substance of the charges are. The sheer number of charges has not occurred out of anything other than rancour and malice.In N. London for Xmas, and tried to engage various arsenal and spuds fans on this subject, but they were reluctant to engage with me other than saying ‘115’ a lot and how that huge number meant City had to be guilty.
The consistent repetition of that magic number made me realise that this whole thing has been nothing but a huge marketing and advertising exercise by the PL, with no goods or services being the subject but simply they are advertising and marketing City’s ‘guilt’.
Marketing campaigns invariably contain some kind of cliched catch phrase like ‘115’ or ‘state-owned’ and they are full of ambiguous and false claims.
It has certainly stuck with other fans I’ve spoken to, and it would seem to be the end in itself.
The guilt has been established by repetition and deceit.
I agree with all of that especially the disaster for the PL if they win - I have been trying to explain this for months.I understand that the very nature of any actionable charges is thought to be hostile, but I still believe there are levels to this and that the Prem hasn't done anything to keep the "hostilities" to a somewhat lesser degree. In fact, I could argue they've done the opposite, an example being the way the charges were put into the public's domain. They were put out to cause maximum effect (while even doing a quite sloppy job of it).
Being that we both agree if City were to be essentially cleared it would be deemed a circus why would the Prem put themselves in such a position. I don't see the risk/reward from a rational business standpoint. I believe the Prem could have proceeded with their investigation and subsequent charges without basically instigating a public bloodbath. That's just my opinion.
Also, I don't see how the Prem "win". We are either cleared and it all looks like what some of us believe or we are found in violation and ruined leaving the Prem to explain how a club was able to reach a dominant status in their league over a period extending well beyond a decade only to have been in breach of a slew of serious rules over the same extended period of time. I don't see how that would strengthen the league's position of being some kind of effective self regulator. For me it further highlights their ineptitude and raises the need for someone independent to regulate what goes on.
We're not talking about a 2 or 3 year window. We're saying the Prem has been a sham for the better part of 15 years so everyone please disregard everything that's gone on since about 2009.
At best we've done nothing wrong. At worst we gamed some "man made" rules 5 to 15 years ago. The smart play by the Prem in either situation was to move on. We're not talking a criminal case here, a murder, a violent assault. Tighten up your rules fellas and keep a keener eye. I'm not saying this as a die hard supporter even. It's just simple pros and cons. I don't see any world where City being destroyed as we know them and having over a dozen years of league play tarnished and invalidated would signify a win for the league. I see it as an unmitigated disaster for all involved thus my reference to this being a circus complete with tents, clowns, jugglers, a barker, the whole thing...
Were we being audited by BDO bk in 2010?I agree with all of that especially the disaster for the PL if they win - I have been trying to explain this for months.
But I don't agree the worst case is City were just gaming "man made" rules. Sadly the worst case seems to me to be worse than that. Nobody can go around making up financial statements - even if no PL rules existed (and in 2010 there were barely any rules) making up your numbers would still be a breach and is (criminally) contrary to company law too. The type of thing alleged by PL can be a civil offence and criminal offence - the PL couldn't prosecute as a crime but in the outside world it is SFO type crime.
I don't have any experience of dealing with the police as prosecutor but found the tone in private and SFO prosecutions to be a little more presumptuous of guilt. And of course, the PL do not have a prosecutors' code to abide by so you have this weird combination of aggressive lawyers in a civil dispute but on behalf of a pseudo regulator.Not sure the last part is exactly correct as any prosecutor, including any regulatory one, is bound by the prosecutors’ code the principles of which include (and I paraphrase somewhat) to not treat a conviction as a ‘win’ and not to win at all costs (not that it’s always abided by). I don’t get the sense that ethos has been followed by the PL at all, and further if they were applying a public interest test as regulatory prosecutors are required to (but again don’t always follow) then it’s highly doubtful many or even any of these charges would have met that test, given the fallout in relation to the allegations and the time elapsed since the putative breaches.
Edit: Para 2.4 of the Code is especially apposite.
Emphasis added.
Don’t worry. If we get cleared, then 115 (yes, I know 130 is the true figure but as you say 115 has stuck) will be the biggest marketing tool our club has ever had and we’ll be able to turn it on its head. It won’t just be the club either - the 1894 Group will never go short of ideas for at least another decade because, believe me, we are going to milk it to fuck to the point that fans of the red cartel cunts (and Spurs) will wish they hadn’t set foot in our stadium. It’ll be relentless as fuck!In N. London for Xmas, and tried to engage various arsenal and spuds fans on this subject, but they were reluctant to engage with me other than saying ‘115’ a lot and how that huge number meant City had to be guilty.
The consistent repetition of that magic number made me realise that this whole thing has been nothing but a huge marketing and advertising exercise by the PL, with no goods or services being the subject but simply they are advertising and marketing City’s ‘guilt’.
Marketing campaigns invariably contain some kind of cliched catch phrase like ‘115’ or ‘state-owned’ and they are full of ambiguous and false claims.
It has certainly stuck with other fans I’ve spoken to, and it would seem to be the end in itself.
The guilt has been established by repetition and deceit.
yesWere we being audited by BDO bk in 2010?
Would they be classed as being complicit or just remiss in their duties?
Yeah I know that, but I was just trying to draw a distinction between an SFO prosecution and these charges (which are obviously not a prosecution) in terms of the limits that are placed upon those that bring the charges in each instance.I don't have any experience of dealing with the police as prosecutor but found the tone in private and SFO prosecutions to be a little more presumptuous of guilt. And of course, the PL do not have a prosecutors' code to abide by so you have this weird combination of aggressive lawyers in a civil dispute but on behalf of a pseudo regulator.
That’s a great idea 115…114…113…I’ve said this before but when we win they need to a count down on the big screen with not guilty at the end, it will probably get the biggest cheer this season.