US Politics Thread

[better dead than red]

No you couldn't cite hundreds. Since you are the type to give no leeway, you should be happy to get none. We can conclude you lied that you can list hundreds becoz U cant


I think its not totally clear how the constitution should be interpreted here. In my estimation, he is wrong, but i agree its a clarification worth testing. And they are. Lets see how the courts interpret. Scholar s have lined up on both sides of the argument with colorable arguments.

This is simply someone having a different understanding of the law. The courts will sought it out. Must note; never heard you once pipe up about any Biden interpretation of the constitution that was shutdown by the courts. Interesting that.



Again, this is not part of any article of the constitution. Its from a Congressional act, which itself might be unconstitutional. Trump and the Presidency is purposely challenging the legitimacy of that act. As it clearly reads as an overstepping of congressional authority. They want a constitutional battle on this issue and more likely than not, they will win because Congress really doesn't have the authority to require or demand a reason for such Executive actions.

Read the Constitution!!!!


Again, you seem to struggle to understand what lies are. A difference in opinion is NOT a lie. Just a difference in views.

If DOGE doesn't satisfy the requirements of a temporary agency, it will simply reorganize as an advisory agency. This is a dumb fight. But have at it you or the Dems want.



The bolded is a lie, U.S is NOT operating at full capacity. Another lie. Its operating at the highest capacity yet, but that's not to be confused with full capacity. It can increase its capacity and will under Trump.

And its not a lie that higher supply will reduce price. And lower cost for producing goods will lead to lower final proces is not a lie, ots a sensible assumption. We should wait and see of it comes true or false.


The liw is you pretending you know the outcome ahead of time.



You are regurgitating 2020. Its 2025. Welcome the present. Like i told you and many others all along, that a majority of Americans don't care about January 6th. We don't need to guess who was right about that now. :)

You should. For the most part, I stay away from this section of Blue Moon. I sometimes read but very rarely post. However, i did feel the need to say something here.

You have previously said, those who attacked police officers deserved to be punished. But also seem to be somewhat flippant regarding the whole thing.

Originally, if I recall correctly, Trump said he'd look at the cases and see about pardon. It was not, to my knowledge, everyone involved gets one,violent or nonviolet. As he did it at the first opportunity, I don't think he had much opportunity to go through it all. Pam Bondi, in her hearing, made it seem as if it had not been discussed in detail with her about giving pardon to all.

A lot of people maybe went to the Capitol that day thinking they were going to chant slogans,wave flags, yell, sing or whatever. A large contingent went looking for a fight.

It started as a fight. Some of the first people there breached temporary barricades. A man punched a female police officer in the face, knocking her down. Her head struck concrete steps. She was hospitalized and out of work for a couple of years. This group didn't go for peace.

Many came in tactical gear looking like they were out to play soldier for the day. Others made their own tactical gear wearing whatever helmets they had, hardened knuckle gloves. Body armour was worn, some in the open and some under jackets or heavy shirts. A lot were wearing gas masks. Flags were carried on axe handle flag poles. People had bats, pepper spray, wasp spray. Some brought frozen bottles of water and small cans of canned goods in their bags(these things make excellent projectiles in a pinch). These things aren't done for "peaceful protests."

I'm sure a lot of people did want to be peaceful but mob think in these situations is a real thing. There were coordinated attempts to break the police line.

Now, I am all for the right to assemble peacefully. Left or right, you start fighting the police you deserve punishment. If Trump had pardoned those who were found to have done only minor things like entered a restricted area but did no violence, I could live with that. But, to just do it for all, including, the most serious offenses, I don't agree with it one bit. There are people, who were some of the violent ones, who insist to this day they did nothing wrong.

You (not you in particular but generally)can't say you support the police but then decide it's ok for them to be attacked when they are trying to do their job in an honest fashion.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

You should. For the most part, I stay away from this section of Blue Moon. I sometimes read but very rarely post. However, i did feel the need to say something here.

You have previously said, those who attacked police officers deserved to be punished. But also seem to be somewhat flippant regarding the whole thing.

Originally, if I recall correctly, Trump said he'd look at the cases and see about pardon. It was not, to my knowledge, everyone involved gets one,violent or nonviolet. As he did it at the first opportunity, I don't think he had much opportunity to go through it all. Pam Bondi, in her hearing, made it seem as if it had not been discussed in detail with her about giving pardon to all.

A lot of people maybe went to the Capitol that day thinking they were going to chant slogans,wave flags, yell, sing or whatever. A large contingent went looking for a fight.

It started as a fight. Some of the first people there breached temporary barricades. A man punched a female police officer in the face, knocking her down. Her head struck concrete steps. She was hospitalized and out of work for a couple of years. This group didn't go for peace.

Many came in tactical gear looking like they were out to play soldier for the day. Others made their own tactical gear wearing whatever helmets they had, hardened knuckle gloves. Body armour was worn, some in the open and some under jackets or heavy shirts. A lot were wearing gas masks. Flags were carried on axe handle flag poles. People had bats, pepper spray, wasp spray. Some brought frozen bottles of water and small cans of canned goods in their bags(these things make excellent projectiles in a pinch). These things aren't done for "peaceful protests."

I'm sure a lot of people did want to be peaceful but mob think in these situations is a real thing. There were coordinated attempts to break the police line.

Now, I am all for the right to assemble peacefully. Left or right, you start fighting the police you deserve punishment. If Trump had pardoned those who were found to have done only minor things like entered a restricted area but did no violence, I could live with that. But, to just do it for all, including, the most serious offenses, I don't agree with it one bit. There are people who were some of the violent ones which insist to this day they did nothing wrong.

You (not you in particular but generally)can't say you support the police but then decide it's ok for them to be attacked when they are trying to do their job in an honest fashion.

I applaud your attempt to shame this moral coward, but I promise you it isn't possible.

All I know is two things are possible: had he been there, we would have either joined in behind the biggest people (of course), or run away in terror like Josh Hawley.

The one thing he wouldn't have done is stand up and say "Hey, maybe this is wrong."

 

[better dead than red]

I applaud your attempt to shame this moral coward, but I promise you it isn't possible.

All I know is two things are possible: had he been there, we would have either joined in behind the biggest people (of course), or run away in terror like Josh Hawley.

The one thing he wouldn't have done is stand up and say "Hey, maybe this is wrong."

It was an ugly day. The fact that there are people who to this day insist it was largely peaceful bothers me. You don't bring weapons, gas masks, and body armour to peaceful gatherings, in my opinion.

 

[Dax777]

You should. For the most part, I stay away from this section of Blue Moon. I sometimes read but very rarely post. However, i did feel the need to say something here.

You have previously said, those who attacked police officers deserved to be punished. But also seem to be somewhat flippant regarding the whole thing.

Since you know my opinion on what should happen to those who attacked cops, whats the issue here? That im not willing to let a poster use it as a cuddle? No I'm not.

January 6th riotsrs were terrible. I said as much. However MOST as in a majority of the protestors were there to protest and protest they did.

Of the 1600 or so jailed, about 140 were convicted of actual violi offenses. Attacking cops, breaking windows, etc.

I am of rhe opinion that those folks should be punished.

I felt the same way about BLM riotsrs as i do Jan-6th rioters. You break the law, you get punished.

Originally, if I recall correctly, Trump said he'd look at the cases and see about pardon. It was not, to my knowledge, everyone involved gets one,violent or nonviolet. As he did it at the first opportunity, I don't think he had much opportunity to go through it all. Pam Bondi, in her hearing, made it seem as if it had not been discussed in detail with her about giving pardon to all.

Most deserved Pardons, many of those that didn't got commutations.

A lot of people maybe went to the Capitol that day thinking they were going to chant slogans,wave flags, yell, sing or whatever. A large contingent went looking for a fight.

Wrong. A small contingent went there for trouble. The overwhelming contingent didn't. There are videos of J6thers who were imploring officers to radio for back up and get someone here as some hooligans are breaking windows

By the way, the guy who was on video saying that was in jail for 3 years... Im sorry but i have zero patience (not directed you personally) for people who had nothing to say about the BLM riots piping up now.

The hypocrisy stinks to high heavens.

It started as a fight. Some of the first people there breached temporary barricades. A man punched a female police officer in the face, knocking her down. Her head struck concrete steps. She was hospitalized and out of work for a couple of years. This group didn't go for peace.

Yes, there were jan 6th rioters sho i think should be in jail. We already agree on that. But where we don't agree is on a vast majority of the 1000 plus protestors jailed illegally.

Many came in tactical gear looking like they were out to play soldier for the day. Others made their own tactical gear wearing whatever helmets they had, hardened knuckle gloves. Body armour was worn, some in the open and some under jackets or heavy shirts. A lot were wearing gas masks. Flags were carried on axe handle flag poles. People had bats, pepper spray, wasp spray. Some brought frozen bottles of water and small cans of canned goods in their bags(these things make excellent projectiles in a pinch). These things aren't done for "peaceful protests."

I'm sure a lot of people did want to be peaceful but mob think in these situations is a real thing. There were coordinated attempts to break the police line.

Now, I am all for the right to assemble peacefully. Left or right, you start fighting the police you deserve punishment. If Trump had pardoned those who were found to have done only minor things like entered a restricted area but did no violence, I could live with that. But, to just do it for all, including, the most serious offenses, I don't agree with it one bit. There are people, who were some of the violent ones, who insist to this day they did nothing wrong.

You (not you in particular but generally)can't say you support the police but then decide it's ok for them to be attacked when they are trying to do their job in an honest fashion.

It is never okay for the police to be attacked. I am happy a lot of the folks who are liking tour post are now finally in agreement that we should all back the Blue. I am happy to welcome them onboard.

But just like its never okay to attack the police, it is equally unacceptable to infringe on the rights of citizens as punishment for exercising their rights... Of which close to 1000 citizens had their rights and liberty violated.

So to conclude, i am pro punishment for all J6 violent offenders... That the violent J6th got pardons or commutations is disappointing. That protestors who weren't violent were jailed is equally a travesty.

But as far as my dismissal of J6th which was the basis of your response, i dismissed it because it was irrelevant to the topic of discussion and was being used simply as a cuddle.

 

[Dax777]

I applaud your attempt to shame this moral coward, but I promise you it isn't possible.

All I know is two things are possible: had he been there, we would have either joined in behind the biggest people (of course), or run away in terror like Josh Hawley.

The one thing he wouldn't have done is stand up and say "Hey, maybe this is wrong."

Oh shut up!

 

[better dead than red]

Since you know my opinion on what should happen to those who attacked cops, whats the issue here? That im not willing to let a poster use it as a cuddle? No I'm not.

January 6th riotsrs were terrible. I said as much. However MOST as in a majority of the protestors were there to protest and protest they did.

Of the 1600 or so jailed, about 140 were convicted of actual violi offenses. Attacking cops, breaking windows, etc.

I am of rhe opinion that those folks should be punished.

I felt the same way about BLM riotsrs as i do Jan-6th rioters. You break the law, you get punished.



Most deserved Pardons, many of those that didn't got commutations.


Wrong. A small contingent went there for trouble. The overwhelming contingent didn't. There are videos of J6thers who were imploring officers to radio for back up and get someone here as some hooligans are breaking windows

By the way, the guy who was on video saying that was in jail for 3 years... Im sorry but i have zero patience (not directed you personally) for people who had nothing to say about the BLM riots piping up now.

The hypocrisy stinks to high heavens.



Yes, there were jan 6th rioters sho i think should be in jail. We already agree on that. But where we don't agree is on a vast majority of the 1000 plus protestors jailed illegally.



It is never okay for the police to be attacked. I am happy a lot of the folks who are liking tour post are now finally in agreement that we should all back the Blue. I am happy to welcome them onboard.

But just like its never okay to attack the police, it is equally unacceptable to infringe on the rights of citizens as punishment for exercising their rights... Of which close to 1000 citizens had their rights and liberty violated.

So to conclude, i am pro punishment for all J6 violent offenders... That the violent J6th got pardons or commutations is disappointing. That protestors who weren't violent were jailed is equally a travesty.

But as far as my dismissal of J6th which was the basis of your response, i dismissed it because it was irrelevant to the topic of discussion and was being used simply as a cuddle.

I was not cuddling you, nor was I using it as a cudgel on you.

It simply struck me as odd that in some posts you are law and order all the way then others appear to be like, "eh." I'm afraid I'm unaware of who was arrested that had their "rights violated." At least a few, if I recall were found not guilty. It seems the justice system was working as it should.

Were there a lot of nonviolet people prosecuted? Yes, of course. They were low hanging fruit and easy cases. They were captured on video, posted on social media and were likely honest when questioned by authorities.

The ones who spend considerable time in jail were it seems the more violent, the recalcitrant ones who insisted upon their innocence and judges decided they needed to be in jail because they were a continuous danger to society or a flight risk. It's unfortunate they did not enjoy being in jail. But you know what? You aren't supposed to enjoy it.

And I'll tell you this, anyone who was there that day knew a fight was happening, even if you were in the back of the crowd. There were enough Trump people there, if they wanted to help stop the riot they well could have done it. They had the numbers if it was, as you say, a small minority and most didn't want it to go down. Now, I am not saying they were all there for violence. But there were plenty who were and it wasn't a spur of the moment decision for all of them. Now, for some it sure was, and they joined "the mob" for whatever reason.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." If it's as you say, a lot of good men did nothing.

And for what's it worth, I did not agree with violence during BLM riots either. For me, it isn't a one side or the other argument politically.

 

[TonyM]

I was not cuddling you, nor was I using it as a cudgel on you.

It simply struck me as odd that in some posts you are law and order all the way then others appear to be like, "eh." I'm afraid I'm unaware of who was arrested that had their "rights violated." At least a few, if I recall were found not guilty. It seems the justice system was working as it should.

Were there a lot of nonviolet people prosecuted? Yes, of course. They were low hanging fruit and easy cases. They were captured on video, posted on social media and were likely honest when questioned by authorities.

The ones who spend considerable time in jail were it seems the more violent, the recalcitrant ones who insisted upon their innocence and judges decided they needed to be in jail because they were a continuous danger to society or a flight risk. It's unfortunate they did not enjoy being in jail. But you know what? You aren't supposed to enjoy it.

And I'll tell you this, anyone who was there that day knew a fight was happening, even if you were in the back of the crowd. There were enough Trump people there, if they wanted to help stop the riot they well could have done it. They had the numbers if it was, as you say, a small minority and most didn't want it to go down. Now, I am not saying they were all there for violence. But there were plenty who were and it wasn't a spur of the moment decision for all of them. Now, for some it sure was, and they joined "the mob" for whatever reason.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." If it's as you say, a lot of good men did nothing.

And for what's it worth, I did not agree with violence during BLM riots either. For me, it isn't a one side or the other argument politically.

From what i can tell Dax is more interested in being right than what is right. He is decent enough to say that the violent offenders should be in prison but not that Trump is a fucking nutcase/tyrant releasing them all. Trumpists can't back down on anything. That is part of what makes them deplorable. The other part is excusing behaviour unbecoming of any normal decent person because they wear a red hat.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Oh shut up!

I shan’t. Your views make me sick.

 

[Dax777]

I was not cuddling you, nor was I using it as a cudgel on you.

It simply struck me as odd that in some posts you are law and order all the way then others appear to be like, "eh." I'm afraid I'm unaware of who was arrested that had their "rights violated." At least a few, if I recall were found not guilty. It seems the justice system was working as it should.

Were there a lot of nonviolet people prosecuted? Yes, of course. They were low hanging fruit and easy cases. They were captured on video, posted on social media and were likely honest when questioned by authorities.

The ones who spend considerable time in jail were it seems the more violent, the recalcitrant ones who insisted upon their innocence and judges decided they needed to be in jail because they were a continuous danger to society or a flight risk. It's unfortunate they did not enjoy being in jail. But you know what? You aren't supposed to enjoy it.

And I'll tell you this, anyone who was there that day knew a fight was happening, even if you were in the back of the crowd. There were enough Trump people there, if they wanted to help stop the riot they well could have done it. They had the numbers if it was, as you say, a small minority and most didn't want it to go down. Now, I am not saying they were all there for violence. But there were plenty who were and it wasn't a spur of the moment decision for all of them. Now, for some it sure was, and they joined "the mob" for whatever reason.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." If it's as you say, a lot of good men did nothing.

And for what's it worth, I did not agree with violence during BLM riots either. For me, it isn't a one side or the other argument politically.

1. The 'cuddle' references wasn't related to your post. But thanks for the correction id that was the point. :)

2.Well it seems we agree that violence in protests are bad no matter who's doing it. Amen to that. I have always and continue to feel the same way. So much so that i generally detest protests. Including the J6th protests. I find protests almost always annoying . They are almost always based on some incomplete information and there are always bad elements who are in it just for the destruction.

So, in as much as we may disagree on many things... I am more than happy to agree on rioters should be jailed :)

 

[Dax777]

I shan’t. Your views make me sick.

Frankly, i don't give a damn!

 

[better dead than red]

1. The 'cuddle' references wasn't related to your post. But thanks for the correction id that eas the point. :)

2.Well it seems we agree that violence in protests are bad no matter who's doing it. Amen to that. I have always and continue to feel the same way. So much so that i generally detest protests. Including the J6th protests. I find protests almost always annoying . They are almost always based on some incomplete information and there are always bad elements who are in it just for the destruction.

So, in as much as we may disagree on many things... I am more than happy to agree on rioters should be jailed :)

Just to be clear, I have nothing personal against you and hope I was not insulting on a personal level.

I'd guess we have some things politically we agree upon and things we do not. I'm the one of the "odd" centrists.

Enjoy the rest of your evening.

 

[Dax777]

From what i can tell Dax is more interested in being right than what is right. He is decent enough to say that the violent offenders should be in prison but not that Trump is a fucking nutcase/tyrant releasing them all. Trumpists can't back down on anything. That is part of what makes them deplorable. The other part is excusing behaviour unbecoming of any normal decent person because they wear a red hat.

Well, thanks for at least thinking I have any decency at all... If you let California tell it, i am a despicable human being cause i don't agree with him.

That said, i don't think Trump is a tyrant. Even if i disagree with his releasing the approximately 140 J6ers who were in fact violent. I wholely agree with the pardoning of the majority.

Similarly, would you consider Joe Biden a tyrant for commuting the sentence of a person who killed 2 cops? Did you even know he did?

Its a mixture of the hypocrisy and even simply the ignorance of these facts that does my head in.

I simply don't agree with a majority here on policy or political affiliation. But just like many supported Biden vut disagree ( albeit not that vociferously) with his preemptive pardons. I too agree with and support Trump's position on a myriad of issues.... But when i disagree with gis position ill point it out and move on.

Somehow, it seems im the only one who is not allowed to disagree with the candidate i supported

 

[Dax777]

Just to be clear, I have nothing personal against you and hope I was not insulting on a personal level.

I'd guess we have some things politically we agree upon and things we do not. I'm the one of the "odd" centrists.

Enjoy the rest of your evening.

God no. No offense taken at all. Was just saying the reference wasn't about your post but rather about the prior exchange i was in that had nothing to do with J6 but the responder brought in J6 as a cudgel

Thanks for your response btw. Like Centrists. even though i find we disagree a lot. They are, in my humble opinion, honest. In their engagement.

At least that's how it strikes me

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Acosta isn't staying around at CNN to be part of any media capitulation to a tyrant.

 

[Dax777]

Acosta isn't staying around at CNN to be part of any media capitulation to a tyrant.

He left coz he was demoted.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

A reminder, Article 14 of the Constitution of the United States literally says:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States”

 

[KS55]

There is nothing more annoying than reading a pompous response by someone who actually does not understand how things work.

Dude, the Judge put in a temporary order to stop the rule because he thinks ot might be unconstitutional. That's what he is supposed to do. Soon enough, he'll render a full decision.

Regardless of what he decides, for Trump or against Trump. Whoever loses, would appeal to the appellate courts and they will review and render a decision. Then whoever loses would eventually then appeal to the Supreme Court and hope Court picks up the issue and gives a final verdict.

So when i say, its a constitutional interpretation issue that Trump wants to litigate. That's what that means... I keep forgetting I have to spell this out for you because you don't fully grasp how things work here. The fight has just started.


But if you wanna be dishonest and scamper off when you are caught in your own styled argument... Feel free :)

You couldn’t get more Maga if you tried. You are like a spoiled teenager.
Take a long good hard look at yourself and ask why so few will engage with you. I have done my best to entertain your arguments despite being warned several times by other posters not to bother. All I get in return is insults and petulance, so, in your words, I will slink off now.
Your ignorance of the law is massive, so don’t tell me I don’t understand, I mastered common law before you were born. If a judge makes a ruling, that is the law at that point until successfully challenged at appeal or further hearing. The law never goes into abeyance.
Incidently, I joined this conversation in October in the run up to the election, so it is highly unlikely that I would challenge Biden as unconstitutional but you, of course, pretend that is suspicious. I did, of course, wholly condemn Biden’s use of the pardon power for his son as an attack on the rule of law, but I guess you think think that is suspicious too. Maga pick and choose as it suits.
Have Maga arranged a meeting with the oil companies yet? That’s action, issuing a fatwa is not. Note the US exports about a third of its crude. You should wonder why, if there is the capacity you claim. I don’t really understand why you are more expert than every industry source who have told Trump umpteen times that they are at capacity. Nothing is more Maga than making a false promise that they know the masses will swallow. My bet is that they have no intention or plan to drill, baby, drill. Let me know when a new well is operational.
So, cheerio.

 

[KS55]

A reminder, Article 14 of the Constitution of the United States literally says:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States”

Full Maga. “Subject to the jurisdiction thereof” does not mean what it says, they argue. Their lawyers need to be wary of being dismissed ‘with prejudice’.
(The phrase is there simply to exclude the children of diplomats etc.)
On this, and several other Maga policies, expect thousands of writs. I can’t see SCOTUS accepting them all.

 

[KS55]

From what i can tell Dax is more interested in being right than what is right. He is decent enough to say that the violent offenders should be in prison but not that Trump is a fucking nutcase/tyrant releasing them all. Trumpists can't back down on anything. That is part of what makes them deplorable. The other part is excusing behaviour unbecoming of any normal decent person because they wear a red hat.

Dax has changed his stance on this. Originally, he insisted it was merely a protest. I demonstrated that all the elements of a conspiracy were in play in an attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power. Dax was unmoved. In effect Dax supported “Hang Mike Pence” by insisting it was merely a protest.
Now, if someone changes their mind, that’s good but Dax is pretending he condemned it ab initio.

 

[lloydie]

Dax has changed his stance on this. Originally, he insisted it was merely a protest. I demonstrated that all the elements of a conspiracy were in play in an attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power. Dax was unmoved. In effect Dax supported “Hang Mike Pence” by insisting it was merely a protest.
Now, if someone changes their mind, that’s good but Dax is pretending he condemned it ab initio.

He also accepted my argument that they ALL (the "rioters") fulfilled all the criteria required to define them as "Insurrectionists". He's rowed back on that since he's become emboldened by his win and the influx of, frankly, RWNJ's into the thread.

The outright stupidity of the alternative facts gang and the disengenuity of the arguments they trumpet -pun intended- have at least succeeded in my unwillingness to engage. At this point all they accomplish is to provide a signpost to what we're going to face on this side of the pond.
It feels like we may have a new What's App infestation to suffer.

On a side note, I'd be happy if the America First gang were true to thier principles and just fucked off to support Tampa Bay Rowdies or some other tinpot yank outfit, it's the patriotic thing to do after all.