Russian invasion of Ukraine

[dickie davies]

In which case why doesn’t Zelenskyy just sign off the minerals then ?

Because he's not getting anything back

 

[BlueHammer85]

Because he's not getting anything back

still puts Trump in a spot.

 

[dickie davies]

still puts Trump in a spot.

No it doesn't
It gives trump a win
"Look i got the mineral deal done for free"
"What are you giving in return?"
"This is payment for the $350b sleepy Joe gave away"

 

[roubaixtuesday]

still puts Trump in a spot.

AIUI the intention was to sign a framework agreement on that at the White House but that of course was deliberately sabotaged by Trump.

Trump's position now is that he won't even discuss it without a full public apology from Zelensky for being monstered.

It's all a sham. They support Russia.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

It’s an opinion

Yes it`s my opinion.

 

[mosssideblue]

There is no other logical approach to take.

Im sure, despite the Government publicly stating we need to maintain a strong relationship with the States, they know deep down whilst Trump is there, this cannot be and are looking at a European collective force

 

[Onholiday(somemightsay)]

In which case why doesn’t Zelenskyy just sign off the minerals then ?

I'm not military expert BH (and apologies if I missed the point), but I assume because he isn't getting any assurances from the US who were thought to be providing security moving forward should Russia not retreat / invade again.

Others will keep me honest..........

 

[mosssideblue]

I'm not military expert BH (and apologies if I missed the point), but I assume because he isn't getting any assurances from the US who were thought to be providing security moving forward should Russia not retreat / invade again.

Others will keep me honest..........

Correct. Trump wants the deal signed before saying whether he would commit to security guarantees or not. No way (and rightly so) can Zelensky agree to that.

 

[Manchester33]

US arms industry going to feel a big hit in the coming years.

The $175b worth of aid that the US has ACTUALLY sent to Ukraine has mainly been spent internally on weapons. EU/NATO countries buy the majority of their military equipment from the US.

I can see this all changing very quickly (similar to how quickly Europe weaned itself off Russian gas and oil). Great time to be invested in EU + UK based arms companies.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I'm not military expert BH (and apologies if I missed the point), but I assume because he isn't getting any assurances from the US who were thought to be providing security moving forward should Russia not retreat / invade again.

Others will keep me honest..........

yep, i can understand that, but was replying to the post that the minerals are mostly a sham and all in Russian territory anyway - Just thought Zelensky could say to the world - we will give Trump minerals we hope he can provide security and continues arms funding until Russia stop the invasion.

If he doesn't then it's clear they are aligned with Russia.

 

[Onholiday(somemightsay)]

yep, i can understand that, but was replying to the post that the minerals are mostly a sham and all in Russian territory anyway - Just thought Zelensky could say to the world - we will give Trump minerals we hope he can provide security and continues arms funding until Russia stop the invasion.

If he doesn't then it's clear they are aligned with Russia.

Ah sorry BH - that bit passed me by.........

 

[grunge]

US arms industry going to feel a big hit in the coming years.

The $175b worth of aid that the US has ACTUALLY sent to Ukraine has mainly been spent internally on weapons. EU/NATO countries buy the majority of their military equipment from the US.

I can see this all changing very quickly (similar to how quickly Europe weaned itself off Russian gas and oil). Great time to be invested in EU + UK based arms companies.

Most of those were from 25/30 years ago too, all bought and paid for around the Iraq war.

but yes. EU defence contractors are going to have a real boom year or 2. I cant see why anyone would buy US currently as they have proven they can limit the use.

 

[Mikeegrini]

 

[grunge]

yep, i can understand that, but was replying to the post that the minerals are mostly a sham and all in Russian territory anyway - Just thought Zelensky could say to the world - we will give Trump minerals we hope he can provide security and continues arms funding until Russia stop the invasion.

If he doesn't then it's clear they are aligned with Russia.

isn't that exactly what he asked for? a peace deal with security guarantee's and the mineral deal was part of that.

the US stance seems to be that the Mineral deal is a key part of it as it puts loads of american staff and companies on the ground and they believe it would make it less likely Russia would attack as they are there.

 

[west didsblue]

US arms industry going to feel a big hit in the coming years.

The $175b worth of aid that the US has ACTUALLY sent to Ukraine has mainly been spent internally on weapons. EU/NATO countries buy the majority of their military equipment from the US.

I can see this all changing very quickly (similar to how quickly Europe weaned itself off Russian gas and oil). Great time to be invested in EU + UK based arms companies.

BAE Systems SP up 37% in a month including a one day rise yesterday of 14%.

 

[SWP's back]

A couple of things occur about the latest development. Firstly it’s got to be the end of US military aid to Ukraine, full stop, as the basis for resumption is an irrational one, given the resumption of arms supplies is based on a commitment to engaging in peace talks. If the latter were to happen (and based upon a US subjective assessment) then the former wouldn’t be required. It’s over.

The second thing is that these supplies are based on previous US commitments and so the starting point from here is that the US will not keep to any agreement it makes or will make - and this should inform the policy of every nation dealing with it, especially Europe as this approach has to apply to Article 5.

Bad faith actors and a rogue state. What a fucking state of affairs.

Remember when we were glibly told that Trump would not be remembered by history as being any worse or any different than every forgettable POTUS that was ever elected and if you thought differently, you had TDS?

 

[SWP's back]

How much more money/Arms has Europe given Ukraine than America anyone know the figures?

Europe $139bn
US $109-119bn depending on the source although the last tranche is now being blocked despite being in depots in Poland.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Remember when we were glibly told that Trump would not be remembered by history as being any worse or any different than every forgettable POTUS that was ever elected and if you thought differently, you had TDS?

Yes.

 

[BlueHammer85]

isn't that exactly what he asked for? a peace deal with security guarantee's and the mineral deal was part of that.

the US stance seems to be that the Mineral deal is a key part of it as it puts loads of american staff and companies on the ground and they believe it would make it less likely Russia would attack as they are there.

I just think if the minerals are a bit of a sham anyway, then just sign the minerals deal anyway and take the gamble that Trump will back Ukraine up. The whole world would really see what Trump is if he took the minerals and didn't provide support for Ukraine.
I say play that hand.

 

[mosssideblue]

I just think if the minerals are a bit of a sham anyway, then just sign the minerals deal anyway and take the gamble that Trump will back Ukraine up. The whole world would really see what Trump is if he took the minerals and didn't provide support for Ukraine.
I say play that hand.

The problem is signing the deal doesn't solve the problem. No matter what peace deal is put before Putin, we know he isn't going to agree and will manipulate Trump to do better for Russia and Trump will oblige