Russian invasion of Ukraine

BlueAnorak said:
Not wishing to worry anyone but the US made a recession into the Great Depression by implementing tarrifs in 1930
www.ucl.ac.uk

Analysis: The US tried high tariffs and ‘America first’ policies in the 1930s

Writing in The Conversation, Dr Thomas Gift and Dr Michael Plouffe (UCL Political Science) reflect on the similarities between President Trump's plan for trade tariffs and the US Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act enacted in 1930.
www.ucl.ac.uk www.ucl.ac.uk
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I used to think that history was an interesting subject, but no more than that.

As I got older, I realised that you can learn a lot from history, but clearly the clowns in the White House haven't come to the same realisation.

Appeasing Hitler/Putin and trying to boost the US economy by slapping tariffs on anybody an everybody will probably have the same outcomes as their forerunners in the 1930s.
 
MeatnSpudsMCFC said:
Still not convinced UK following the US blindly is a long-term strategy. They see everyone else as a hindrance.

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It's interesting, I was reading some stuff from a US military analyst last week that put forward the theory that the biggest risk to the US militarily was it's own sense of exceptionalism. He laid out it's role in 20/21st century conflicts and concluded that the US track record bore no resemblance to its own self-mythologising and that pursuing policy based on it's perception of military exceptionalism was leading and would continue to lead it to make mistakes. Though not ubiquitous, the dismissal of other countries capabilities is apparently rife in significant swathes of the US adminstration an attitude which in turn makes others within the military deeply uncomfortable.
 
If Russia can use a Korean mercenary army why can't Europe arm and equip a European mercenary army I am sure throughout the whole of Europe we could put a few thousand boots into Ukraine
 
cityontheup said:
I hate these cunts more and more each day.
We should fuck these cunts off, give Ukraine enough arms to push back the Russians and force them to the negotiating table
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Imagine that. I know it's probably wishful thinking but it would be piss funny if we and Europe cut America/Trump out of it completely and backed Ukraine as much as possible to the point that a deal is brokered with Putin that is acceptable to Zelenskyy and Ukraine!
 
threespires said:
It's interesting, I was reading some stuff from a US military analyst last week that put forward the theory that the biggest risk to the US militarily was it's own sense of exceptionalism. He laid out it's role in 20/21st century conflicts and concluded that the US track record bore no resemblance to its own self-mythologising and that pursuing policy based on it's perception of military exceptionalism was leading and would continue to lead it to make mistakes. Though not ubiquitous, the dismissal of other countries capabilities is apparently rife in significant swathes of the US adminstration an attitude which in turn makes others within the military deeply uncomfortable.
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I can very much believe that. Every US movie that involves their armed forces shows them victorious (in that particular battle) whether it’s in Afghanistan or Vietnam or anywhere else. They genuinely believe they’re undefeated.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
Trump's already talked of slashing the defence spending of the US govt, so the increase in other NATO spending is presumably to cover that.

As you say, I don't see any way that European nations/Canada don't build their own, especially with the experience of the last 3 years - who's going to build a tank army?
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Yep, tanks are done.

You could argue planes and boats are next.

Drones are the future and Ukraine understands that technology better than anyone. Great opportunity for post war growth there.
 
SWP's back said:
I can very much believe that. Every US movie that involves their armed forces shows them victorious (in that particular battle) whether it’s in Afghanistan or Vietnam or anywhere else. They genuinely believe they’re undefeated.
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It did actually mention cultural depictions not helping the situation.
 
SWP's back said:
I can very much believe that. Every US movie that involves their armed forces shows them victorious (in that particular battle) whether it’s in Afghanistan or Vietnam or anywhere else. They genuinely believe they’re undefeated.
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Never won a war on there own.
Just leave a load of shit behind
 
roubaixtuesday said:
I agree with much of your post, but not this. Imagine a Europe flooded with Ukranian refugees, Russian tanks on the border of the EU.

I don't think we'd be better off. Far from it.
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What is the impact economically and financially though? To Trump it makes zero sense to for example ban gas imports from Russia and increase energy costs as we have.

We would obviously always have the impact of Ukraine itself with the loss of Ukrainian imports, oils and grains etc.

This doesn't really impact the US though and the US has imported more from Russia so for them in the cold light of day it's always going to be hard to support Ukraine except for where doing the right thing is important.
 
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I think the Trump regime made clear, that they...

don't want to throw more great dollars to Ukraine,
get their invested/aided money back 3-fold,
will not be ANY part of security guarantees for Ukraine,
but will bring putin to the table to make what they call "peace".

Therefore, putin will get ALL 4 "new russian areas"
Crimea, Luhansk, Donezk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson - in total!

That means, the unoccupied parts as well, like mineral rich north-west of Donezk and areas north of Dnipro River (right bank).

Plus, putin will only accept small contingents of "peace troops" and certainly no NATO troops. And a very limited UKR army.

US investments will only engage in UKR mines if there is guaranteed peace - and that means putin gets ALL he wants, to keep "peace".

All that we have to fully understand what signing the rare earths deal will mean for Ukraine and the wider situation.
 
M18CTID said:
Yep. Europe needs to go it alone now as a Trump-led America can't be trusted. If at some point in the future when the orange-faced **** and his cronies have fucked off out of the White House (sooner rather than later hopefully) then we can leave the door open for them to get back on board, but as of now we need to assume that they're no longer an ally.
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There is a huge issue with that unfortunately.

Our armed forces and theirs are so inrtinsically linked right now, there really can't be such a "break". It's not just about the leaders.

From a training point of view we are regularly training together, both over there, and in the UK (Europe), this can't be simply ended overnight by us, even trump would struggle to do it, and he'll be firmly advised by their military leaders (no mater who he sacks/promotes) that it can't be done, it will take years.

It's not just us either, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, are all in the same position, their whole armed forces are similiraly linked (embedded) within the US armed forces, in training, operations, and equipment.
 
SWP's back said:
If you’ve got a link I wouldn’t mind reading it.
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Had a quick look, struggling to find it. I want to say it was a link within an article from either of the RUSI or British Defence Journal websites but it's possible I was on an academic account and when I should have been reading about nonverbal communication I was looking at other stuff!

In trying to find it though, I did come across this. Don't know the guys credentials but it's at least a two thirds overlap with the paper i was reading...it's not as specific but less dry and is saying something quite similar.

warontherocks.com

The Myth of American Military Dominance

It is now popular to talk about grand strategy. A variety of media outlets regularly publish articles about it. Think tank panels and papers frequently
warontherocks.com

If I find the other one I'll post it.
 
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