Russian invasion of Ukraine

Although you wouldn't think so from western media (that laps up Russian propaganda) the fighting is going very well for the home team near Pokrovsk...
 
roubaixtuesday said:
As always, the likely outcome of Trump interactions is even worse than you thought it might be.

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Can't say I'd be in the least bit surprised, I wouldn't even be surprised if Ukraine eventually agreed to do exactly that.

Even when Ukraine left the soviet union, the russians continued to have a naval base there, under agreement with Ukraine, and many/most of the residents of Crimea were formely from russia/soviet state.

People forget easily that a lot of russians lived in Ukraine peacefully before this kicked off in 2014 (not 2022).

It's a complex mess that a few phone calls aren't going to resolve in a couple of weeks.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
As always, the likely outcome of Trump interactions is even worse than you thought it might be.

Click to expand...


The US recognising a territory Russia already control as a bid to end the conflict seems overly optimistic. Three years of war, thousands dead and they get the US and others recognising Crimea as Russian and maybe some bits of Ukraine which have been disputed over since 2014?

Nothing sort of dismantling Ukraine as a viable independent state is satisfying Putin. Offering Putin what he already has and leaving Ukraine free to join the EU and prosper as Poland and others have done and with a European peace keeping force on Russia’s borders is not going to fly unless I’m missing something here.
 
BobKowalski said:
The US recognising a territory Russia already control as a bid to end the conflict seems overly optimistic. Three years of war, thousands dead and they get the US and others recognising Crimea as Russian and maybe some bits of Ukraine which have been disputed over since 2014?

Nothing sort of dismantling Ukraine as a viable independent state is satisfying Putin. Offering Putin what he already has and leaving Ukraine free to join the EU and prosper as Poland and others have done and with a European peace keeping force on Russia’s borders is not going to fly unless I’m missing something here.
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This would be, I expect, just another preemptive concession from the US, not the end point. We'll see.
 
not confirmed

z **** military bloggers write that the Ukrainian armed forces have launched an offensive in the Belgorod region, in the border Grafovka district.Heavy equipment and manpower are involved in the attack, and aviation is working.We will probably find out how large the attack is soon.The most interesting direction is - which is, in Kharkiv, in the rear of the russian forces that have invaded the Vovchansk settlement - if the Ukrainian attack is confirmed, it is likely planned to encircle the russian bridgehead and expel russian forces from Kharkiv.

@visionergeo
 
CTID1977 said:
not confirmed

z **** military bloggers write that the Ukrainian armed forces have launched an offensive in the Belgorod region, in the border Grafovka district.Heavy equipment and manpower are involved in the attack, and aviation is working.We will probably find out how large the attack is soon.The most interesting direction is - which is, in Kharkiv, in the rear of the russian forces that have invaded the Vovchansk settlement - if the Ukrainian attack is confirmed, it is likely planned to encircle the russian bridgehead and expel russian forces from Kharkiv.

@visionergeo
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Ukrainian sources claim that today's alleged incursion of Ukrainian forces into Belgorod was fabricated by russia ahead of the Trump-Putin conversation to create certain justifications.In reality, there was no attempted incursion—only routine artillery exchanges were recorded.Generally, russia has a habit of inventing such incidents where they "defeat" an imaginary enemy, and this appears to be another case. russian war correspondents are now reporting that a Ukrainian mechanized platoon-level attack was repelled in Belgorod Oblast and that stabilization efforts are underway.
 
CTID1977 said:
Ukrainian sources claim that today's alleged incursion of Ukrainian forces into Belgorod was fabricated by russia ahead of the Trump-Putin conversation to create certain justifications.In reality, there was no attempted incursion—only routine artillery exchanges were recorded.Generally, russia has a habit of inventing such incidents where they "defeat" an imaginary enemy, and this appears to be another case. russian war correspondents are now reporting that a Ukrainian mechanized platoon-level attack was repelled in Belgorod Oblast and that stabilization efforts are underway.
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The sad thing is the Orange twat will believe it
 
roubaixtuesday said:
This would be, I expect, just another preemptive concession from the US, not the end point. We'll see.
Click to expand...

It may not be the end point but what exactly does the US have as its end point and is it in its gift to give it anyway? Better relations, more trade? Sure, until the next President comes along and thinks otherwise. Turn against China? No chance. Stop supplying Ukraine for the third time? Doesn’t stop Europe from doing so, nor stop the Ukrainians producing their own which they are increasingly doing.

The problem the US has is that every other country involved directly or indirectly in this conflict has agency. They get to decide what they will or will not do not the US. All the US can do is make life as difficult as possible for Ukraine and its European allies, but that will be everyone’s working assumption anyway.
 
CTID1977 said:
Ukrainian sources claim that today's alleged incursion of Ukrainian forces into Belgorod was fabricated by russia ahead of the Trump-Putin conversation to create certain justifications.In reality, there was no attempted incursion—only routine artillery exchanges were recorded.Generally, russia has a habit of inventing such incidents where they "defeat" an imaginary enemy, and this appears to be another case. russian war correspondents are now reporting that a Ukrainian mechanized platoon-level attack was repelled in Belgorod Oblast and that stabilization efforts are underway.
Click to expand...
I presume the Russians had encircled the Ukranians again zzzz
 
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