The Labour Government

The Northern Baptist said:
The biggest scandal is how nearly 25% of the population have ended up ‘disabled’. Apparently 16m people have some form of disability. Genuinely baffling and we must fix the root cause
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Have you ever thought that the ''root cause'' maybe ...just maybe.... advancements in healthcare and the ability of the NHS to prolong / save life?
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Have you ever thought that the ''root cause'' maybe ...just maybe.... advancements in healthcare and the ability of the NHS to prolong / save life?
Click to expand...

It’s more nuanced than that I think mate. A portion (I suspect not an insignificant one either) of those classed as disabled will be waiting on surgery for chronic conditions. Now the stoic amongst us would have carried on working, not claiming anything and waiting for their day under the knife - if you think about your parents attitudes towards this they’d have been of that type of character and plenty still exist. Even this generation had plenty of it BUT just like everyone peoples’ priorities have changed post COVID - people want to work from home, have a better work life balance, etc etc and I suspect that attitude is reflecting in these increases in numbers of those claiming and not working whilst they wait for treatment - ie work / life balance where we prioritise ourselves more.

We then have mental health issues and the absolute cluster fuck to get support.

Once you address those two issues (not easy and requires huge investment) you’ll probably see the numbers revert to historical levels. What’s easier is to try and change peoples attitudes towards work / life balance by cutting their payments and forcing them back to work which is the approach this government has opted for.
 
The Northern Baptist said:
The biggest scandal is how nearly 25% of the population have ended up ‘disabled’. Apparently 16m people have some form of disability. Genuinely baffling and we must fix the root cause
Click to expand...
One of the root causes is in plain sight - Long Covid.

'Five years on from when the pandemic hit, two million people in England and Scotland are estimated to have long Covid, according to the latest data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
Due to the 200 symptoms associated with the illness, it is difficult to get accurate data on how many sufferers are out of work and how many of those are claiming benefits.
However, it is known that 381,000 long Covid sufferers are “severely limited in their ability to undertake their day-to-day activities”. Since the pandemic struck in 2020, there has been a marked uplift in the number of people claiming health-related benefits'.

Funding for Long Covid clinics is being withdrawn and many will close.

Unfortunately I have some experience of Long Covid. My daughter, a Dementia Nurse has it and it has taken over a year for her to recover enough to get back to work. She had to keep her family going on half pay and the experience has had a pretty devastating effect. She was only a few months away from claiming PIP.

My son is in his third year of LC. He was a competitive cyclist, hillwalker etc etc. Fit as a flea. He now can barely walk 100 yards unaided. His one piece of luck is that he has a fantastic employer who allows him to work 100% from home. If he didn't work for an enlightened company, he would 100% be claiming PIP.

Its never mentioned, doesn't exist and those that suffer are often labelled 'sick notes'. God knows the devastation these cuts will cause.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Cannot disagree.... and whilst we're at it, lets chuck in the LibDems, Greens, Plaid Cymru and the SNP too.

The message will eventually filter through they're all a bunch of sleazy "I'm alright Jack" crooks.
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You can have the Welsh, the Scots and Davey who spends everyday at Alton Towers but leave the Greens alone.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
My son is in his third year of LC. He was a competitive cyclist, hillwalker etc etc. Fit as a flea. He now can barely walk 100 yards unaided. His one piece of luck is that he has a fantastic employer who allows him to work 100% from home. If he didn't work for an enlightened company, he would 100% be claiming PIP.

Its never mentioned, doesn't exist and those that suffer are often labelled 'sick notes'. God knows the devastation these cuts will cacause.
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He can and should still claim PIP whilst working it is to assist with additional living costs associated with the condition not means tested.
 
ganganvince said:
He can and should still claim PIP whilst working it is to assist with additional living costs associated with the condition not means tested.
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Thanks for that. I didn't know that. I'm not sure he does either. He almost certainly won't claim - he and his Mrs earn a good crust but I will tell him. Cheers mate.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Serious question because it a line pursued by the last lot -

How do you simply claim benefits and live life on benefits whilst driving a Motabilty Car as a choice and with ease because I don't see it.

I'd like to think that this week Labour will set out their provisions and they are acceptable but I am not sure.

In the past its helped Govt's to push people onto unemployment benefits but when that goes up it isn't then it seems to have been DLA - then it wasn't.

Where I struggle is after 14 years of slashing mental health support and recruiting people as doctors who are not really doctors yet why is people being diagnosed with mental health issues a surprise? Why is it a surprise that after facing a worldwide pandemic from a virus that was novel - ie unknown - a number of people continue to be affected by it? And there are other issues I can raise however lets see what the proposals are but applying the bias of 10 years ago courtesy of advisers you will never get it right.
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It's a shame all this happened last week else Labour could have put it in their Manifesto:-)
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Have you ever thought that the ''root cause'' maybe ...just maybe.... advancements in healthcare and the ability of the NHS to prolong / save life?
Click to expand...

No, because the increase in benefit claims such as ESA and PIP are all working age benefits. Take a look at some of the plots in the following link, look at the increases and look how poorly we compare to peer countries.

ifs.org.uk

Health-related benefit claims post-pandemic: UK trends and global context | Institute for Fiscal Studies

How do post-COVID claimants of health-related benefits compare with pre-COVID claimants? Where in the UK are they? How do other countries compare?
ifs.org.uk ifs.org.uk

There are towns and cities where 40% of the working population are too sick to work!!

www.centreforcities.org

The UK’s army of hidden unemployed people - Centre for Cities

www.centreforcities.org www.centreforcities.org
 
Saddleworth2 said:
One of the root causes is in plain sight - Long Covid.

'Five years on from when the pandemic hit, two million people in England and Scotland are estimated to have long Covid, according to the latest data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
Due to the 200 symptoms associated with the illness, it is difficult to get accurate data on how many sufferers are out of work and how many of those are claiming benefits.
However, it is known that 381,000 long Covid sufferers are “severely limited in their ability to undertake their day-to-day activities”. Since the pandemic struck in 2020, there has been a marked uplift in the number of people claiming health-related benefits'.

Funding for Long Covid clinics is being withdrawn and many will close.

Unfortunately I have some experience of Long Covid. My daughter, a Dementia Nurse has it and it has taken over a year for her to recover enough to get back to work. She had to keep her family going on half pay and the experience has had a pretty devastating effect. She was only a few months away from claiming PIP.

My son is in his third year of LC. He was a competitive cyclist, hillwalker etc etc. Fit as a flea. He now can barely walk 100 yards unaided. His one piece of luck is that he has a fantastic employer who allows him to work 100% from home. If he didn't work for an enlightened company, he would 100% be claiming PIP.

Its never mentioned, doesn't exist and those that suffer are often labelled 'sick notes'. God knows the devastation these cuts will cause.
Click to expand...

Agree long covid will have an effect, but why are we so much worse than comparable counties?

See figure 3 in this link:

ifs.org.uk

Health-related benefit claims post-pandemic: UK trends and global context | Institute for Fiscal Studies

How do post-COVID claimants of health-related benefits compare with pre-COVID claimants? Where in the UK are they? How do other countries compare?
ifs.org.uk ifs.org.uk
 
ganganvince said:
He can and should still claim PIP whilst working it is to assist with additional living costs associated with the condition not means tested.
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He should, its not means tested and sounds like he would straight away get the mobility element.

Quite often people who are genuinely suffering and affected don't claim and should.
 
metalblue said:
It’s more nuanced than that I think mate. A portion (I suspect not an insignificant one either) of those classed as disabled will be waiting on surgery for chronic conditions. Now the stoic amongst us would have carried on working, not claiming anything and waiting for their day under the knife - if you think about your parents attitudes towards this they’d have been of that type of character and plenty still exist. Even this generation had plenty of it BUT just like everyone peoples’ priorities have changed post COVID - people want to work from home, have a better work life balance, etc etc and I suspect that attitude is reflecting in these increases in numbers of those claiming and not working whilst they wait for treatment - ie work / life balance where we prioritise ourselves more.

We then have mental health issues and the absolute cluster fuck to get support.

Once you address those two issues (not easy and requires huge investment) you’ll probably see the numbers revert to historical levels. What’s easier is to try and change peoples attitudes towards work / life balance by cutting their payments and forcing them back to work which is the approach this government has opted for.
Click to expand...

Just to say many WFH because the travel is extremely expensive and totally pointless waste of time to sit in office to do what you can indoors - yes I have a better work/life balance WFH but I am more productive and do longer hours.
 
The Northern Baptist said:
Agree long covid will have an effect, but why are we so much worse than comparable counties?

See figure 3 in this link:

ifs.org.uk

Health-related benefit claims post-pandemic: UK trends and global context | Institute for Fiscal Studies

How do post-COVID claimants of health-related benefits compare with pre-COVID claimants? Where in the UK are they? How do other countries compare?
ifs.org.uk ifs.org.uk
Click to expand...
That is a very thought provoking analysis mate. Whilst as you say, it finds Covid has an affect, its not the sole explanation by any means.

More plausible explanations involve the interaction between recent health and income shocks and the condition of the UK’s economy, welfare system and public services. The UK’s health system has struggled to cope since the pandemic, and this may mean COVID has (directly or indirectly) had a greater impact on health and health-related benefit claims in the UK than elsewhere. The design of the UK’s benefit system (including employment support) also matters. For instance, the level of basic unemployment support is lower relative to earnings in the UK than in most comparable countries and the UK system has demanding job-search requirements. This may mean that following a shock to real incomes, more people with health conditions in the UK apply for health-related benefits than in other countries. There have also been some changes to the application process for disability benefits, which could have played some role in the increase in applications and claimants. More research is needed to untangle potential causes and their interactions. This is the first report in a series: in subsequent reports, we will explore in more detail the role of health and income shocks in the recent rise in health-related benefit claims.

Maybe we should just blame Brexit and have done with it :-)

Interesting that the different approach in Scotland has seen an even greater rise in applications.
Maybe all of the different health related benefits should be means tested. If money needs to be saved we should always focus the available resource on those most in need. My own view is that cuts to mental health services are a very significant factor and the effects of the pandemic on mental health are still being felt. Over a year waiting list for children getting any sort of help is not going to help matters. in future either.
 
I want to share some figures to show what some people get. I work in a industry where I see what people get. An example from the other day.

You have a claimant on ESA, Housing Benefit and Pip. She has never worked in her life. She has an adult daughter living with her, aged 23, never worked and on UC and Pip. Her youngest daughter just came out of college, she is on UC now as well, along with PIP. My guess is she’ll never see the inside of a workplace either.

I totted up what they all got a month. It came to around £4400. Renting in a northern town.

What does this equate to? It’s the tax receipts of 7 average earners. It’s the same someone on about £75k gets.

Completely unsustainable.
 
One factor is that this is a low-wage economy, and many people top up their wages with Universal Credit and/or Housing Benefit. My argument is that these benefits are not really for the claimant. They are corporate welfare for employers and landlords.

I read today that the average person is only 7% better off in real terms than in 1970. Where the (really rich) elite are up by thousands of a per cent. While I haven't checked the source, I find it easy to believe.

The 1% are laughing at us. The sad thing is they have the support of millions on middling incomes who imagine they are rich.
 
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The Northern Baptist said:
I want to share some figures to show what some people get. I work in a industry where I see what people get. An example from the other day.

You have a claimant on ESA, Housing Benefit and Pip. She has never worked in her life. She has an adult daughter living with her, aged 23, never worked and on UC and Pip. Her youngest daughter just came out of college, she is on UC now as well, along with PIP. My guess is she’ll never see the inside of a workplace either.

I totted up what they all got a month. It came to around £4400. Renting in a northern town.

What does this equate to? It’s the tax receipts of 7 average earners. It’s the same someone on about £75k gets.

Completely unsustainable.
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Does your theoretical claimant exist?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
One of the root causes is in plain sight - Long Covid.

'Five years on from when the pandemic hit, two million people in England and Scotland are estimated to have long Covid, according to the latest data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
Due to the 200 symptoms associated with the illness, it is difficult to get accurate data on how many sufferers are out of work and how many of those are claiming benefits.
However, it is known that 381,000 long Covid sufferers are “severely limited in their ability to undertake their day-to-day activities”. Since the pandemic struck in 2020, there has been a marked uplift in the number of people claiming health-related benefits'.

Funding for Long Covid clinics is being withdrawn and many will close.

Unfortunately I have some experience of Long Covid. My daughter, a Dementia Nurse has it and it has taken over a year for her to recover enough to get back to work. She had to keep her family going on half pay and the experience has had a pretty devastating effect. She was only a few months away from claiming PIP.

My son is in his third year of LC. He was a competitive cyclist, hillwalker etc etc. Fit as a flea. He now can barely walk 100 yards unaided. His one piece of luck is that he has a fantastic employer who allows him to work 100% from home. If he didn't work for an enlightened company, he would 100% be claiming PIP.

It’s never mentioned, doesn't exist and those that suffer are often labelled 'sick notes'. God knows the devastation these cuts will cause.
Click to expand...
Why isn’t he claiming PIP.
It is not a work related benefit.
 
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