Assisted dying

johnny crossan said:
It undermines the relationship between medical practioner and patient "First do no harm" but actually goes beyond that as can be seen from the rise in coercion promoting suicide of the vulnerable in other countries and assisted by a growing involvement by the private sector. You should maybe read Lord Sumption's article I linked on here a while back.
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Have you got any figures on the rise of 'coercion'.
 
johnny crossan said:
It undermines the relationship between medical practioner and patient "First do no harm" but actually goes beyond that as can be seen from the rise in coercion promoting suicide of the vulnerable in other countries and assisted by a growing involvement by the private sector. You should maybe read Lord Sumption's article I linked on here a while back.

web.archive.org

I can’t rejoice at this assisted dying bill. Where is the humanity?

After sitting as a justice of the Supreme Court, and having seen friends struggle with end-of-life choices, Jonathan Sumption believed the law should change. But he feels the new bill is over-engineered and coldly inhumane
web.archive.org web.archive.org
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These people are dying no matter what level of end of life care is provided. If a patient makes a conscious decision that they want to die on their terms, then I approve of that.

The argument of doing no harm is flawed imo as allowing someone to continue a few weeks longer either in agony or drugged to the hilt against the patients wishes, is (imo) doing harm (to both patient and relatives).

There may or maybe not be occasional cases of coercion, but with a 26 week window and no doubt weeks of enacting the bill to finally administer a final end life medicine, then what length of life would be saved.
 
johnny crossan said:
Should I have said what annoys me is those who think objecting to the barbarity of state killing are all atheists? Or is it that you prefer this law to called assisted dying, which is already legal, to assisted killing or suicide - which is what it is?
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I would prefer it if you didn't say anything to me tbh, no offense intended. No good can come of it.
 
johnny crossan said:
This bill is an amendment to the assisted suicide act - hence my description. Assisted dying is already quite legal as is suicide. This legislation crosses the line and could be used in the way all the disability groups and medical professional bodies who oppose it fear. It fundamentally changes the relationship between the individual and the state. (I've posted quite a bit on here about it if you care to scroll back btw.)
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I don't believe assisted dying is legal in this country? assisted suicide certainly isn't. You are correct though about suicide not being illegal
 
tweety said:
My father died yesterday from Alzheimer's, he'd spent 3 years in a care home where he slowly deteriorated. When he still had some of his marbles I lost count of the number of times he told me that he wanted to end it.
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Awful disease, my sympathies for your loss mate.
 
flook said:
I don't believe assisted dying is legal in this country? assisted suicide certainly isn't. You are correct though about suicide not being illegal
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People are assisted to die by medical practitioners routinely in this country, it's always been the case. They already can (with or without consent) withdraw life sustaining treatment, provide palliative care even if it may shorten life and in extreme cases induce sleep until the patient passes.
 
johnny crossan said:
People are assisted to die by medical practitioners routinely in this country, it's always been the case. They already can (with or without consent) withdraw life sustaining treatment, provide palliative care even if it may shorten life and in extreme cases induce sleep until the patient passes.
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What you describe is not assisted dying.
 
johnny crossan said:
It is, what the supporters of the bill call assisted dying is assisted suicide. It is an amendment to the Suicide Act (1961).
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it really isn't

I agree the withdrawal of medical assistance may allow end of life to take its natural course, but that's because continuing medical assistance would prolong life unnaturally.

johnny crossan said:
People are assisted to die by medical practitioners routinely in this country, it's always been the case. They already can (with or without consent) withdraw life sustaining treatment, provide palliative care even if it may shorten life and in extreme cases induce sleep until the patient passes.
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If the bold bit was assisted dying, then without consent would make it murder
 
give it to gordon said:
Agree it really is hard to think about it.

My dad said for over 5 months before he died from cancer that he didn't want to live.
The first thing out of his mouth was 'I don't want to be here I want to be with mum ( his wife our mum )
For 5 months my dad was in tremendous pain and the last month was horrific, horrible to have to watch your dad suffer it was beyond words.

My dad would have taken assisted dying I'm 100% sure of that. As his son it's hard to think he wanted out. But he had had enough pain.

This subject fries my brain I guess it's so hard to admit the person yolove wants to die.
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Had the same with my mum and dad and to actually want the parents you love to not be here is impossible to even comprehend and it’s only when you talk to people who have been through it that the understand .
 
tweety said:
My father died yesterday from Alzheimer's, he'd spent 3 years in a care home where he slowly deteriorated. When he still had some of his marbles I lost count of the number of times he told me that he wanted to end it.
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Sorry to hear that .
 
johnny crossan said:
Withdrawal of life sustaining treatment is in the gift of medical practitioners under the provisions of The Mental Capacity Act (2005).
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I'm not disputing that, but that's not assisted dying.

A basic example of the difference, you are the sole witness to a motorcycle accident, the rider is bleeding out in front of you, you have basic medical knowledge. You have 3 choices

1 - You can try and save him even though he's in great pain and you're unlikely to be successful but you may be able to ease his pain a little bit with the packet of paracetamol you have (palliative care)
2 - You can check him over and then do nothing (withdrawal of medical care)
3 - You can end his suffering by hitting him with a brick (assisted dying, or as the law stands, murder)
 
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