Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[r.soleofsalford]

I also don't think an underground in Manchester is the answer.

But there is no denying that the London transport system overall is far superior to the rubbish we have to tolerate in Greater Manchester.

Perhaps it’s the 10’s of billions they spent in London on the transport network compared to couple of bob on a half arsed cheap tram system.

 

[Gray]

Perhaps it’s the 10’s of billions they spent in London on the transport network compared to couple of bob on a half arsed cheap tram system.

Exactly the point I made previously.

 

[nmc]

London's geography is completely different to Manchester, and that makes a comparison of its transport system difficult. I would like to see many improvements in national and local transport infrastructure but a Manchester Underground seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I want to travel to London fast, and to be able to travel to a city like Leeds for example in 20 minutes.

From a City perspective, an Underground in Manchester would not produce any better outcome than the tram which effectively goes underground. City fans in London should be able to travel to watch Manchester City outside of 3pm on a Saturday. There are chronic infrastructure problems in the UK but a Manchester Underground is not going to fix any problems as far as I can see.

That’s not really true. In the UK the government typically spends 4 to 5 times per head on transport infrastructure in London compared to the provinces. Over 40 or 50 years this produces significant differences. London’s infrastructure is good and is on a par with other Capital cities like Paris and Berlin. Provincial Cities in the UK are typically miles behind European equivalents. Compare Manchester’s transport infrastructure to Lyon, Munich or Zurich.

 

[BrianW]

In the past, when transport infrastructure projects have been chosen, the rate of return on investment has been taken into account. The sad truth is that projects around London typically show a greater return on capital so they win out.

I believe this present 'evil, wicked, corrupt' Labour government has tweaked the equation a bit to give the regions a better chance. But I don't know if this has had any impact yet.

At present, the booming London and SE economy 'subsidises' most, if not all, of the rest of the UK, which, on raw figures, makes Tennessee look prosperous. It is pretty advanced thinking to suggest that a huge investment in the regions could rebalance the economy and make everyone more or less self-sufficient.

Sadly, although many people bang on endlessly about 'patriotism' there is not the level of national unity in the UK that made it possible (for example) for Germany to invest gigantic sums in former East Germany to bring it up to scratch. But that is what we need.

 

[Marvin.]

That’s not really true. In the UK the government typically spends 4 to 5 times per head on transport infrastructure in London compared to the provinces. Over 40 or 50 years this produces significant differences. London’s infrastructure is good and is on a par with other Capital cities like Paris and Berlin. Provincial Cities in the UK are typically miles behind European equivalents. Compare Manchester’s transport infrastructure to Lyon, Munich or Zurich.

I can't compare Manchester to Lyon, Munuch or Zurich because I don't know those cities but what I can say with certainty is that there is only a small logistical benefit to creating an underground network inside the inner ring road.

 

[Gray]

You come back from London to Piccadilly and you can’t get a tram to Altrincham due to engineering works.

So you walk to Market Street and still can’t get a tram to Altrincham due to an Oasis concert.

Bloody terrible public transport system in Greater Manchester.

 

[BrianW]

They are relaying the tracks between Piccadilly and Picc Gardens. While inconvenient, it's a necessity. And inevitable as rail/tram tracks do not last forever.

Whether the changes for Oasis are necessary is another question. I presume it's based on the advice of police and safety authorities. It's certainly a pain in the arse. These big concerts would be better up on the moors near Woodhead and then we could get on with our lives.

 

[IOWBlue]

They are relaying the tracks between Piccadilly and Picc Gardens. While inconvenient, it's a necessity. And inevitable as rail/tram tracks do not last forever.

Whether the changes for Oasis are necessary is another question. I presume it's based on the advice of police and safety authorities. It's certainly a pain in the arse. These big concerts would be bettet up on the moors near Woodhead and then we could get on with our lives.

Isn't going to concerts etc, part of our lives.

 

[Centurions]

Just back from two nights in London, now that is a proper transport system. Any really large investment in the UK is invariable within the Capital is it any wonder people voted for Brexit?

The main problem with Brexit (and I was against leaving) was that it meant we left Europe but kept London. The other way around, I'd have been all for it.

 

[JGL07]

Fast movement will be needed to get to the various parts of the conurbation - Atom Valley, airport, Salford Quays etc. Expecting people to take up to an hour from the city centre to get there is NOT world class. Arriving in Euston, walking 10 mins to Kings Cross St Pancras to get a regular direct connection to Gatwick Airport is. Arriving in Euston, picking up the underground to London Victoria and then a Gatwick Express train is too. I did both those journeys regular for a while and the difference is night and day, travelling through the capital was an absolute breeze.

You are talking bullshit about ‘over an hour’ from Manchester Airport to the City Centre.

It is ten minutes on the train. Metrolink to the airport was never intended to ferry passengers to and from the City Centre. It was always about getting the workforce from all around South Manchester there.

I have only ever used the tram to the airport once when the train service was not running.

The City Council pushed for many years to get the Picc-Vic underground rail link and eventually were forced to give up because the figures didn’t add up to meet Treasury guidelines.

 

[Silva61]

London's geography is completely different to Manchester, and that makes a comparison of its transport system difficult. I would like to see many improvements in national and local transport infrastructure but a Manchester Underground seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I want to travel to London fast, and to be able to travel to a city like Leeds for example in 20 minutes.

From a City perspective, an Underground in Manchester would not produce any better outcome than the tram which effectively goes underground. City fans in London should be able to travel to watch Manchester City outside of 3pm on a Saturday. There are chronic infrastructure problems in the UK but a Manchester Underground is not going to fix any problems as far as I can see.

Picadilly gardens stop would resemble Penn square within weeks.

 

[Silva61]

I can't compare Manchester to Lyon, Munuch or Zurich because I don't know those cities but what I can say with certainty is that there is only a small logistical benefit to creating an underground network inside

You are talking bullshit about ‘over an hour’ from Manchester Airport to the City Centre.

It is ten minutes on the train. Metrolink to the airport was never intended to ferry passengers to and from the City Centre. It was always about getting the workforce from all around South Manchester there.

I have only ever used the tram to the airport once when the train service was not running.

The City Council pushed for many years to get the Picc-Vic underground rail link and eventually were forced to give up because the figures didn’t add up to meet Treasury guidelines.

How short sighted is that, building a tram system just to get the workforce to the airport.

 

[BrianW]

Isn't going to concerts etc, part of our lives.

Not my life. Not in this case, anyway.

My needs and requirements do not necessitate the whole of Manchester's public transport system to be fucked up just to accommodate them. Why we have to have no trams beyond Victoria all day (from my end) just to accommodate an entertainment that lasts a few hours eludes me. Did no concert-goers want to go to Altrincham, for example?

 

[Blue Since 76]

Not my life. Not in this case, anyway.

My needs and requirements do not necessitate the whole of Manchester's public transport system to be fucked up just to accommodate them. Why we have to have no trams beyond Victoria all day (from my end) just to accommodate an entertainment that lasts a few hours eludes me. Did no concert-goers want to go to Altrincham, for example?

Not sure what 'your end' is but there are trams running on the airport, Altrincham and Didsbury lines for a start.

Not sure what amendments they may make for the concert, but we all complain about them not making changes when there are matches on so can't complain if they try and use the system to get 80,000 away

 

[Centurions]

Not sure what 'your end' is but there are trams running on the airport, Altrincham and Didsbury lines for a start.

Not sure what amendments they may make for the concert, but we all complain about them not making changes when there are matches on so can't complain if they try and use the system to get 80,000 away

I'd make a wild, off the top of my head guess at Bury.

 

[Blue Since 76]

I'd make a wild, off the top of my head guess at Bury.

Well the Bury line is currently operating to Altrincham, so...

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

In the past, when transport infrastructure projects have been chosen, the rate of return on investment has been taken into account. The sad truth is that projects around London typically show a greater return on capital so they win out.

I believe this present 'evil, wicked, corrupt' Labour government has tweaked the equation a bit to give the regions a better chance. But I don't know if this has had any impact yet.

At present, the booming London and SE economy 'subsidises' most, if not all, of the rest of the UK, which, on raw figures, makes Tennessee look prosperous. It is pretty advanced thinking to suggest that a huge investment in the regions could rebalance the economy and make everyone more or less self-sufficient.

Sadly, although many people bang on endlessly about 'patriotism' there is not the level of national unity in the UK that made it possible (for example) for Germany to invest gigantic sums in former East Germany to bring it up to scratch. But that is what we need.

But the figures are twisted. Most of London’s GDP is generated by the City of London and its property market. Without that productivity is low in London. London has had excessive investment compared to the rest of the UK. People still quote the total lie that Britain is “the sixth richest country” in the world. Strip out London and the UK is a poor country compared to the rest of Europe.

 

[uweuweuwe]

sorry if its somewhere else in the thread but I couldn't see it. I was driving past the training ground and I noticed alot of work being done where the old midland bank used to be opposite bank street is this part of the complex or is this something different. I hadnt been past in a while but was avoiding the m60 last week so only just noticed it.

As for the underground again apologies if previously mentioned. I remember reading about the several aborted attempts to build an underground system in Manchester If I remember an early on didn't go ahead due to the geology or something and the one in the 70s from Victoria to Piccadilly which was supposed to go via to st peters square was stopped for economic reasons. Even though I believe the arndale was built with a space underneath to hold a station. plus I don't know if it was some kind of urban myth but the coop is supposed to have tunnels that lead to Victoria station in preparation for an underground. Heres hoping it goes ahead as long as its more like Singapore than the central line.

 

[stadiumcat]

Sounds like they're changing some of the levels, so lower tier is Level 0 now instead of Level 1, and if you were previously in block 120 you'll now be in 020.

Row labelling will also change from letters to numbers, which I think is a big improvement. I sit in SS3 and the amount of people particularly for a Champions League game that confuse eg. row LL with Row L is surprising. Think changing to numbered rows makes it easier.

Was row LL limited to the Welsh supporters' clubs :)

 

[kurious oranj]

sorry if its somewhere else in the thread but I couldn't see it. I was driving past the training ground and I noticed alot of work being done where the old midland bank used to be opposite bank street is this part of the complex or is this something different. I hadnt been past in a while but was avoiding the m60 last week so only just noticed it.

That's the new training complex for the women's teams.