Assisted dying

flook said:
I'm not disputing that, but that's not assisted dying.

A basic example of the difference, you are the sole witness to a motorcycle accident, the rider is bleeding out in front of you, you have basic medical knowledge. You have 3 choices

1 - You can try and save him even though he's in great pain and you're unlikely to be successful but you may be able to ease his pain a little bit with the packet of paracetamol you have (palliative care)
2 - You can check him over and then do nothing (withdrawal of medical care)
3 - You can end his suffering by hitting him with a brick (assisted dying, or as the law stands, murder)
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I agree 3 = administering a lethal dose of drugs and is not currently legal (though not necessarily murder ) but will become so under the Terminally Ill Act (2025) if it passes. That is not included in my examples given of a physician assisting a person to die though which are all perfectly legal now.
 
mosssideblue said:
I’m sure that makes sense to you but I’m struggling to see your point
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The experience of every country that has so far passed this legislation is that its criteria are quickly extended from the terminally ill to include state assisted suicide for other groups of suffering people, including recently in Denmark those who are terminally 'tired of life'. The state is not to be trusted to exercise that power over its citizens.
 
They just have to pass this now, all the polls have said for years that most people want it as an option, we all die so it is time that people have a choice if possible. Many people who go to dignitus say they are dying much sooner than they want just because they have to be well enough to travel and to take the medicine themselves

It is everyones right to die as peacefully and pain free as possible with loved ones with them, we are talking about end of life care which is not great if you are at home, most people want to die in their own bed so let them take this option. I think the safeguards are ok

Just get it passed asap
 
kaz7 said:
They just have to pass this now, all the polls have said for years that most people want it as an option, we all die so it is time that people have a choice if possible. Many people who go to dignitus say they are dying much sooner than they want just because they have to be well enough to travel and to take the medicine themselves

It is everyones right to die as peacefully and pain free as possible with loved ones with them, we are talking about end of life care which is not great if you are at home, most people want to die in their own bed so let them take this option. I think the safeguards are ok

Just get it passed asap
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It's unconstitutional as it stands, the debate is really worth listening to.
 
johnny crossan said:
The experience of every country that has so far passed this legislation is that its criteria are quickly extended from the terminally ill to include state assisted suicide for other groups of suffering people, including recently in Denmark those who are terminally 'tired of life'. The state is not to be trusted to exercise that power over its citizens.
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With only 6 months to live and having many hoops to jump through to gain approval, I don’t see any issues
 
mosssideblue said:
With only 6 months to live and having many hoops to jump through to gain approval, I don’t see any issues
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Doesn't go far enough enough in my view.

We all die. I'd like to have more say in the matter of my own death.

I heard a story recently of UK chap who used dignitas. He was living in a caravan, wasn't close to his family as he walked out on his 1st wife and kids wanted nothing to do with him. He was diagnosed with an incurable cancer which he hadn't told anyone about. He knew exactly how his last few years were going to pan out so he just opted to live as best he could until he felt the disease taking hold. He wouldn't of qualified under UK law as technically had years to live but he just made his mind up himself. Only person he told was the site owner of his caravan as he had cleared it all out and arranged the sale.

This was a relative of a work colleague. The family all found out via a solicitor letter with instructions re the will.
 
Gareth Barry Conlon said:
Doesn't go far enough enough in my view.

We all die. I'd like to have more say in the matter of my own death.

I heard a story recently of UK chap who used dignitas. He was living in a caravan, wasn't close to his family as he walked out on his 1st wife and kids wanted nothing to do with him. He was diagnosed with an incurable cancer which he hadn't told anyone about. He knew exactly how his last few years were going to pan out so he just opted to live as best he could until he felt the disease taking hold. He wouldn't of qualified under UK law as technically had years to live but he just made his mind up himself. Only person he told was the site owner of his caravan as he had cleared it all out and arranged the sale.

This was a relative of a work colleague. The family all found out via a solicitor letter with instructions re the will.
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I agree we should decide when we go
 
johnny crossan said:
The experience of every country that has so far passed this legislation is that its criteria are quickly extended from the terminally ill to include state assisted suicide for other groups of suffering people, including recently in Denmark those who are terminally 'tired of life'. The state is not to be trusted to exercise that power over its citizens.
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Denmark hasn't legalised assisted dying.
 
johnny crossan said:
apologies, Holland.
www.exitinternational.net

Support for Tired of Life Euthanasia Soars in NL - Exit International

Share this ContentAn elective death for completed life reasons should be possible, says 71 percent of Dutch: ‘Baby boomers want to make their own choices’ Seven out of 10 Dutch people believe there should be a law that allows dying assistance for seniors who feel their life is complete. So...
www.exitinternational.net www.exitinternational.net
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Just to clarify the point you make though, the Dutch have had their form of assisted dying for over 20 years and it hasn't been amended. That article you posted relates to something that has been discussed for almost a decade but never brought into legislation.

And ultimately, if there's support for it then what is the problem? If it was a law constantly sabotaged or misused don't you think there'd be a lot of stories about it? In the Netherlands it has worked successfully. I actually think the version we are looking to introduce is too conservative and unlikely to make much difference in practice with the time constraints imposed and lack of qualified professionals to grant the request.

The critical point here though is giving an individual the choice of ending their life if they have a terminal illness and are likely to suffer. Why do you get to decide their fate?

If it's for religious reasoning, there's plenty of stuff in the Bible the church has become liberal on. God doesn't like suicide so let him deal with those that make that choice and don't take the option yourself. Live and let die.
 
supercity88 said:
Just to clarify the point you make though, the Dutch have had their form of assisted dying for over 20 years and it hasn't been amended. That article you posted relates to something that has been discussed for almost a decade but never brought into legislation.

And ultimately, if there's support for it then what is the problem? If it was a law constantly sabotaged or misused don't you think there'd be a lot of stories about it? In the Netherlands it has worked successfully. I actually think the version we are looking to introduce is too conservative and unlikely to make much difference in practice with the time constraints imposed and lack of qualified professionals to grant the request.

The critical point here though is giving an individual the choice of ending their life if they have a terminal illness and are likely to suffer. Why do you get to decide their fate?

If it's for religious reasoning, there's plenty of stuff in the Bible the church has become liberal on. God doesn't like suicide so let him deal with those that make that choice and don't take the option yourself. Live and let die.
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The Netherlands (along with Canada, Belgium, Spain & Austria) has already widened eligibility for assisted suicide for those with chronic, non-terminal conditions who also experience unbearable suffering. Including those with mental conditions is also currently being considered in several countries.

Giving the state further powers to kill innocent people is not a solution to any problem and is not a matter of religious faith.
www.theguardian.com

Assisted dying bill is a ‘licence to kill’, Theresa May says

Former prime minister makes comments as Lords debate legislation for England and Wales for first time
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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