PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[bluemc]

Do you not challenge them on it if it is said to you?

Absolutely but if I'm considered to be the Manchester City PR team then "pissing in the wind" is probably an apt phrase.

 

[CC1]

It works both ways. You (or anyone else) cannot quantify how much our supporter base has truly grown over the past decade. Likewise, no-one can prove how much the growth has been stunted by the stigma of the ongoing case.

My point exactly but the poster I was replying to had stated that he didn’t think our fanbase had grown as it should over the past few years.
I wondered why he thought that particularly as we are expanding the north stand &, as I said, in my experience the siting of city related stuff seems IMHO to have grown both here & abroad & I was trying to back that up by my experiences here & abroad.

Presumably he has reasons for thinking what he said.

 

[give it to gordon]

“Blood money”?

Whose blood is it?

How about the blood of 39 Juventus fans. That should shut the cunts up.

Or the blood money from Standard Charter ?

 

[CC1]

I agree with this. As has been said before, the process is the punishment. Reputational damage rather than points deductions and high level sanctions.

I've got a son of high school age and such is the generation (and attention span), a lot of the football content he consumes is on TikTok, YouTube Shorts, YouTube etc. Quick, easy, clickbait sensationalism.

There's one channel in particular on YouTube that does animated content every week, poking fun at matches, news stories and certain teams/players. Obviously being one of the "bigger" teams, City feature a lot, and our front of shirt sponsor is "115." "Dad, what does 115 mean? What's that all about?"

Then you have the likes of Brent Decesare, fan channels of other clubs who openly call us cheats, talk about "blood money" (I had that one thrown at me yesterday), who spout this both in long videos and also short clips that get snapped out and posted/shared around social media regardless of the viewer's location.

The narrative spewed on Talksport and by representives of Sky/TNT Sports not just on their station but also on their own social media channels adds to this narrative for the adult audience.

The head of La Liga openly and often refers to City as cheats, so to claim that this case doesn't transcend into other markets and internationally people don't care is simply not true.

What do we see City doing about it? Certainly as far as the eye can see, nothing. Whilst we are therefore all hopeful that once the case is closed and we are exonerated, the club go all guns blazing after the haters, deep down we know we won't. The owners are clearly more political and not as emotional as the fanbase.

But the reputational damage is done and we'll never be able to quantify how this impacted supporter growth or our financial position.

People soon forget & when we’re cleared I can guarantee it won’t be mentioned ever again in the red media

 

[Centurions]

It works both ways. You (or anyone else) cannot quantify how much our supporter base has truly grown over the past decade. Likewise, no-one can prove how much the growth has been stunted by the stigma of the ongoing case.

You absolutely can via social media interactions. No, I don't have the figures to hand before you ask but it should be easily searchable.

As for what influence the charges may have had either way, then no, without massive surveys, it's impossible.

Edit: a quick chatgpt search:-

https://chatgpt.com/c/68e23a7d-b264-8332-a380-1f5263318ceb

It’s clear that Manchester City’s worldwide support has grown substantially over the past ~10 years. The growth is visible in multiple metrics: social media followers, number of official supporters clubs, TV/viewing figures, club memberships etc. But exact “fan count” is harder to pin down — a lot depends on what you count (social media followers? Official members? Viewers? Supporters clubs?), and what your baseline year is. Below is a summary of what the public data shows, plus some caveats.

---

Key metrics showing growth​

Here are some of the ways in which support (or indicators of support) for Man City has risen, with figures:

Metric	Recent figure (or recent season)	Earlier reference (approx 10 years ago or earliest available)	Approx growth / change
Social media followings (total across major platforms)	~186 million followers in 2023-24. (Manchester City FC)	In 2015, combined numbers on Facebook/Twitter/Instagram etc were much lower; e.g. in 2015 MCFC Facebook pages had ~18-20 million, and Twitter even less. (Sky Sports)	Roughly 5-10× growth, depending on which platforms; big gains especially in Instagram, TikTok etc.
Official Supporters Clubs (OSC) branches / countries	405 branches in 75 countries (2023-24) (Manchester City FC)	In 2020/21 there were ~300 OSC branches in >60 countries. (Manchester City FC)	Growth of about ~30-40% in number of branches, expansion into more countries over the decade.
Membership / “Cityzens / Official Members”	Membership grew by 34% year-on-year in 2023-24; strong growth in USA, China, Japan etc. (Manchester City FC)	In 2014-15, the “SkyBlue programme” had ~150,000 “members” (or “SkyBlue” supporters) globally. (Manchester City FC)	Enormous growth (many multiples) in this metric — likely many millions now, compared to 150,000 a decade ago.
TV / global audience & video views	In 2022-23, total audience across all competitions was ~786 million viewers. (Manchester City FC) Social media video views in 2023-24 across major platforms reached >10 billion. (Manchester City FC)	Older data is less clear / not always published in the same way; in earlier years such reach was much lower, especially via social/digital.	Very large increase in exposure / viewership.
Brand value	Recent brand value ~£1.4 billion. (Manchester City FC)	Earlier brand values (pre-major success) were much smaller; though I don’t have a precise 2015 published brand-valuation for City in the sources I saw.	Strong growth in commercial / brand strength, enabled by on-pitch success, commercial deals, etc.

---

Some example baselines / specific earlier data (≈2015)​

• In the 2014-15 Annual Report, City’s “SkyBlue programme” (a fan membership scheme) had reached ~150,000 members globally. (Manchester City FC)
• In 2015, on Facebook, Manchester City had ~18 million followers; on Twitter fewer (~2-3 million) etc. (Sky Sports)
• Also in 2020-21, there were over 300 OSC branches in over 60 countries. (Manchester City FC)

So comparing those with today’s ~400+ branches, 186 million social media followers etc., the growth is very substantial.

---

Challenges / Caveats​

• What counts as a “supporter”: Is a social media follower a fan? Is a supporter club branch equal in “size” to a membership? Is someone who watches occasionally a fan? Different measures exaggerate/understate things.
• Platform changes: New platforms (e.g. TikTok, Instagram Reels) have emerged and exploded in popularity. City has benefited from these new channels (which didn’t exist or were negligible ~10 years ago). So growth is partly from more means of counting and connecting.
• On-pitch success matters: City’s recent years have seen huge success (Premier Leagues, Champions League, etc.). Success boosts visibility, which leads to more fans. So growth is not linear or purely due to long-term brand building; big trophies have accelerated growth.
• Global media rights & broadcasting: The expansion of TV/streaming, more global rights deals, more accessible broadcasts (including streaming) increases potential audience — even without increasing “dedicated fans”, more people see / follow games, which can translate into fandom.

---

Bottom line​

Putting it all together: Manchester City’s global support has likely increased by some multiple over the past 10 years. If you look at social media followers, it’s probably 5-10× depending on platform; Official Supporters Clubs have increased by ~30-40% in branches over recent years; membership schemes have gone from hundreds of thousands to multi-millions; TV audience exposure has ballooned.
If you want, I can try to assemble a timeline (year by year data) to more precisely quantify the growth in each metric, or estimate the current “fan base size” worldwide (with uncertainty bands). Do you want me to pull that together?

 

[bluemc]

You absolutely can via social media interactions. No, I don't have the figures to hand before you ask but it should be easily searchable.

As for what influence the charges may have had either way, then no, without massive surveys, it's impossible.

Edit: a quick chatgpt search:-

https://chatgpt.com/c/68e23a7d-b264-8332-a380-1f5263318ceb

It’s clear that Manchester City’s worldwide support has grown substantially over the past ~10 years. The growth is visible in multiple metrics: social media followers, number of official supporters clubs, TV/viewing figures, club memberships etc. But exact “fan count” is harder to pin down — a lot depends on what you count (social media followers? Official members? Viewers? Supporters clubs?), and what your baseline year is. Below is a summary of what the public data shows, plus some caveats.

---

Key metrics showing growth​

Here are some of the ways in which support (or indicators of support) for Man City has risen, with figures:

Metric	Recent figure (or recent season)	Earlier reference (approx 10 years ago or earliest available)	Approx growth / change
Social media followings (total across major platforms)	~186 million followers in 2023-24. (Manchester City FC)	In 2015, combined numbers on Facebook/Twitter/Instagram etc were much lower; e.g. in 2015 MCFC Facebook pages had ~18-20 million, and Twitter even less. (Sky Sports)	Roughly 5-10× growth, depending on which platforms; big gains especially in Instagram, TikTok etc.
Official Supporters Clubs (OSC) branches / countries	405 branches in 75 countries (2023-24) (Manchester City FC)	In 2020/21 there were ~300 OSC branches in >60 countries. (Manchester City FC)	Growth of about ~30-40% in number of branches, expansion into more countries over the decade.
Membership / “Cityzens / Official Members”	Membership grew by 34% year-on-year in 2023-24; strong growth in USA, China, Japan etc. (Manchester City FC)	In 2014-15, the “SkyBlue programme” had ~150,000 “members” (or “SkyBlue” supporters) globally. (Manchester City FC)	Enormous growth (many multiples) in this metric — likely many millions now, compared to 150,000 a decade ago.
TV / global audience & video views	In 2022-23, total audience across all competitions was ~786 million viewers. (Manchester City FC) Social media video views in 2023-24 across major platforms reached >10 billion. (Manchester City FC)	Older data is less clear / not always published in the same way; in earlier years such reach was much lower, especially via social/digital.	Very large increase in exposure / viewership.
Brand value	Recent brand value ~£1.4 billion. (Manchester City FC)	Earlier brand values (pre-major success) were much smaller; though I don’t have a precise 2015 published brand-valuation for City in the sources I saw.	Strong growth in commercial / brand strength, enabled by on-pitch success, commercial deals, etc.

---

Some example baselines / specific earlier data (≈2015)​

• In the 2014-15 Annual Report, City’s “SkyBlue programme” (a fan membership scheme) had reached ~150,000 members globally. (Manchester City FC)
• In 2015, on Facebook, Manchester City had ~18 million followers; on Twitter fewer (~2-3 million) etc. (Sky Sports)
• Also in 2020-21, there were over 300 OSC branches in over 60 countries. (Manchester City FC)

So comparing those with today’s ~400+ branches, 186 million social media followers etc., the growth is very substantial.

---

Challenges / Caveats​

• What counts as a “supporter”: Is a social media follower a fan? Is a supporter club branch equal in “size” to a membership? Is someone who watches occasionally a fan? Different measures exaggerate/understate things.
• Platform changes: New platforms (e.g. TikTok, Instagram Reels) have emerged and exploded in popularity. City has benefited from these new channels (which didn’t exist or were negligible ~10 years ago). So growth is partly from more means of counting and connecting.
• On-pitch success matters: City’s recent years have seen huge success (Premier Leagues, Champions League, etc.). Success boosts visibility, which leads to more fans. So growth is not linear or purely due to long-term brand building; big trophies have accelerated growth.
• Global media rights & broadcasting: The expansion of TV/streaming, more global rights deals, more accessible broadcasts (including streaming) increases potential audience — even without increasing “dedicated fans”, more people see / follow games, which can translate into fandom.

---

Bottom line​

Putting it all together: Manchester City’s global support has likely increased by some multiple over the past 10 years. If you look at social media followers, it’s probably 5-10× depending on platform; Official Supporters Clubs have increased by ~30-40% in branches over recent years; membership schemes have gone from hundreds of thousands to multi-millions; TV audience exposure has ballooned.
If you want, I can try to assemble a timeline (year by year data) to more precisely quantify the growth in each metric, or estimate the current “fan base size” worldwide (with uncertainty bands). Do you want me to pull that together?

Very disappointed that ChatGPT used "enormous", "very large" but not once the word "massive". Makes me doubt the source in all honesty.

In all seriousness, the growth is real. But, and I appreciate no-one has the answer, what would the growth have been without the smear campaign?

The process is the punishment.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Out if interest, where have you got this info from. It’s quite a statement to make if it’s NOT just your opinion. Are you including the reaction after we won the treble & 4 PLs in this period?

My experience when travelling is that City fans and shirts are dominant & other than the usual RM & Barca shirts (which have reduced since Messi left) - we’re out there

I’m basing on the fact that spurs, Everton and West Ham have been shit for years yet get as many or more fans in the stadium than we do after many years of trophies and superstars.

 

[Cobwebcat]

Very disappointed that ChatGPT used "enormous", "very large" but not once the word "massive". Makes me doubt the source in all honesty.

In all seriousness, the growth is real. But, and I appreciate no-one has the answer, what would the growth have been without the smear campaign?

The process is the punishment.

We can never know the difference (my guess is slight when compared to the impact of the trophies won) but, if the process was meant to halt our progress on and/or off the pitch, it has been a spectacular failure of monstrous proportions demonstrated by Centurion’s post.

The growth in the City brand has been miraculous which comes from winning matches.

 

[Cobwebcat]

I’m basing on the fact that spurs, Everton and West Ham have been shit for years yet get as many or more fans in the stadium than we do after many years of trophies and superstars.

True but that’s a very specific measurement given the global nature of the game and how it is watched. Less than 1% of our followers are based in the UK.

 

[manimanc]

Tomorrow is it then?

Makes sense to me. No games. International break. Pep won't be doing his pressers. The press will be briefed i presume to keep the silly questions down to a minimum or be told to not ask about it.

Really hope so as it will be rolling into 3 years next February.

 

[1961_vintage]

Or the blood money from Standard Charter ?

Or Fam money from Visit Rwanda.

 

[halfcenturyup]

My point exactly but the poster I was replying to had stated that he didn’t think our fanbase had grown as it should over the past few years.
I wondered why he thought that particularly as we are expanding the north stand &, as I said, in my experience the siting of city related stuff seems IMHO to have grown both here & abroad & I was trying to back that up by my experiences here & abroad.

Presumably he has reasons for thinking what he said.

I think everybody is right in the area they think is most important. I think DD was referring to fan growth in the UK and it can hardly be denied that the constant cheat negativity must have had an impact on domestic growth.

But I can't see that it has made much difference to the club's international growth. And that, I guess, is what interests the club, at least until this is all over. And being realistic, probably afterwards as well. Nothing wrong with that, as long as proper attention is paid to local support. But that is a different discussion.

As is whether Khaldoon will come out firing at the end of the process, as he suggested. Personally, I would guess not.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Will FSG leak the verdict to the NYT to distract from the dippers being shit?

 

[Brightwell Bros.]

I hope you witheld a few quid for the being a **** tax.

He'd dodge that as well, but be moaning that he's "worked hard his whole life" when it's time to collect his pension.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

I’m not convinced by this. Whilst I do think the club is focussed on growing globally, I don’t think our fanbase has increased as it should over the last few years and I think that is at least partly down to the fact that we are seen as the cheating, empty seat club by the sort of people who get their football info from TikTok etc.

I think the damage caused by this case has been almost immeasurable.

That’s a reasonable shout. It is impossible to measure of course but it is also my gut feeling. We have expanded hugely in the USA of course but the negative smear campaign has damaged us elsewhere. It was a deliberate PR strategy by our commercial rivals not just isolated banter on social media.

 

[waspish]

Will FSG leak the verdict to the NYT to distract from the dippers being shit?

I just want it released and it doesn’t matter when it happens it be big news articles galore pointing out all the negatives

 

[Eric Hitchmough]

Tomorrow is it then?

Makes sense to me. No games. International break. Pep won't be doing his pressers. The press will be briefed i presume to keep the silly questions down to a minimum or be told to not ask about it.

Really hope so as it will be rolling into 3 years next February.

I reckon both parties will receive it in the next couple of days and verdict announced by the end of the week.

Pure gut feeling. I couldn’t be less ITK.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Out if interest, where have you got this info from. It’s quite a statement to make if it’s NOT just your opinion. Are you including the reaction after we won the treble & 4 PLs in this period?

My experience when travelling is that City fans and shirts are dominant & other than the usual RM & Barca shirts (which have reduced since Messi left) - we’re out there

Lots of new City fans definitely but also lots of haters who say we are state owned cheats.

 

[TinFoilHat]

I just want it released and it doesn’t matter when it happens it be big news articles galore pointing out all the negatives

Hence the Scouse owners favourite paper putting their slant it. Tariq Panja will look like Randy in South Park by his desk after pressing send.

 

[Brightwell Bros.]

It works both ways. You (or anyone else) cannot quantify how much our supporter base has truly grown over the past decade. Likewise, no-one can prove how much the growth has been stunted by the stigma of the ongoing case.

But all of the things you'd use to measure this do show the growth you'd expect. Shirt sales, social media engagement, Netflix deal, new stand and general growth in "tourists", international ratings. All up, some massively since 115/treble.