Uploaded on twitter last night i see, along with clips of him not singing the national anthem which some are now getting all giddy about. sums my post up about how social media is the real reason for division we're seeing.
As you said earlier, agree to disagree on what it was like pre brexit and faragism. I stand by that, from my own experiences. Granted yours differ, all fair.
Don't particularly disagree with any of the rest.
and 'othering' a small amount of people isn't going to improve anyone's life-there are 69 million in this country.Did you see my original post. I presume you did because I said no issues with immigrants. Said our country was built on immigration. But legal. Them ones who saved your Dad and I am glad they did, are not the ones popping over on a boat are they. Try reading, engaging with someone and taking in the context before rushing with your buzz words and cliches.
You are still quoting 30k of illegals which means this conversation is pointless. Up to June this year it was reported at 50k alone. If you stick your fingers in your ears, shout loudly and ignore everything around you then you are very lost, all whilst quoting incorrect information and arguing points which haven't been made like doctors and such like who are here doing a great job. Our public services are hampered by assisting with people who shouldn't be here. It will not solve the problem but money and resources would or should be better used elsewhere. Whatever is being spent on illegals is too much. The flag has not been hijacked and you and others declaring it is something that it is not. Remember, this was raised years ago with people being called racist for having flags up during international tournaments and such like. People are using it now to say enough is enough. You cannot claim division, when Neville says comments like he did on his post. You cannot claim division when we allow hate speech against jews to go unpunished and then take the moral high ground. It is hypocrisy at the highest level.
The timing of the flags isn't poor, we all got called racist for putting them up with international tournaments being played. Rewriting history and claiming the flag is an issue only now shouldn't be a thing. It is being used now to say this is our country and we have had enough of everything, not just illegals, the shite we all put up with daily. The irony is, the display of the flag has been hijacked from the left calling it out for something it isn't then having that as their truth. Nothing will change.The timing of it is poor. It is. But then, the timing of putting the flags up is also poor, and malicious, and that is his point. Particularly given the last few weeks/months of how the flag was used.
It is a comment on the reaction, and those jumping at using the tragedy to stoke more division. And he is right.
He is not btw blaming the attack on the flags. The only people claiming that, are those that want to flame the division, and encourage more of reaction. I agree the flag itself is in no way representative of racism ir bigotry. But the manner of its use in the context and the message, very much is. And it is a pity they are hijacking national flags to do it. If you want to send out a xenophobic message, go and design your own flag, put it up, see how it goes. They are literally hiding behind something they know most normal people would like to defend, while getting the message sticking where it might. I feel for everyone that loves their country and finds it uncomfortable seeing their own flag misused in that way.
Uploaded on twitter last night i see, along with clips of him not singing the national anthem which some are now getting all giddy about. sums my post up about how social media is the real reason for division we're seeing.
You open a can of worms where immigration needs tackling overall. You start with the ones here illegally though surely. We cannot sustain the level of growth in this country. We cannot house the people that live here now. (unless you arrive on a boat) So what is the solution? I know, we control our numbers, we control our borders, we stop letting every person in who fancies it. Very simply, if you want to live here you need to respect our culture, have a craft or skill you can bring us and contribute to society. If you can't then go elsewhere until we have our own shit in order. That isn't racist to say, it is simple logic.and 'othering' a small amount of people isn't going to improve anyone's life-there are 69 million in this country.
Now you could argue that the huge increase in net immigration post brexit has piled unbearable pressure on public services after 14 years of austerity, brext and covid-but to blame people seeking ayslum/illegal-whatever their label is simply wrong-4% is not the issue.
were you this angry during 14 years of tory imposed decline?You open a can of worms where immigration needs tackling overall. You start with the ones here illegally though surely. We cannot sustain the level of growth in this country. We cannot house the people that live here now. (unless you arrive on a boat) So what is the solution? I know, we control our numbers, we control our borders, we stop letting every person in who fancies it. Very simply, if you want to live here you need to respect our culture, have a craft or skill you can bring us and contribute to society. If you can't then go elsewhere until we have our own shit in order. That isn't racist to say, it is simple logic.
You open a can of worms where immigration needs tackling overall. You start with the ones here illegally though surely. We cannot sustain the level of growth in this country. We cannot house the people that live here now. (unless you arrive on a boat) So what is the solution? I know, we control our numbers, we control our borders, we stop letting every person in who fancies it. Very simply, if you want to live here you need to respect our culture, have a craft or skill you can bring us and contribute to society. If you can't then go elsewhere until we have our own shit in order. That isn't racist to say, it is simple logic.
Couldn't agree more with you, I would add there are many lessons we could learn from what has happened to Sweden where now 20% of the population is ethnicIt amazes me the ignorance of the anti flaggers at times and reading this thread. Not realising the purpose and thoughts of the ones doing it, instead very boringly and uneducatedly stereotype everyone and lazily calling people racist. It is pathetic.
On Neville, whilst he doesn't say what happened last week was down to white middle aged men, you have to question the timing of it. Why off the back of innocent jews being killed by a muslim, in a terrorist attack, is he putting out this statement? Whilst I don't agree with his words from his ivory tower, I could accept that was his views had it not been off the back of an attack which had nothing to do with British white middle aged men. You could argue the division that caused that attack was off the back of allowing anti jew hate speech for so long. Just a thought. Ultimately Gary Neville doesn't have a clue, he isn't patriotic because he played for England, he had to and we have heard many times how them players during his time didn't give enough for England so that argument is mute. The country will not unite because the left deem everyone a nazi if you don't agree with their bonkers behaviour. The flag isn't racist, nobody is demanding a white Britain, many want our own seen to first and our own affairs in order before we help everybody else out. I had to wait 5 weeks for a doctors appointment for what was quite an important diagnosis. It isn't racist to say that I want a better service considering the thousands I have paid in taxes and contributions, and I expect better treatment than someone who has come over illegally, put up in a hotel at my expense with NHS facilities on site. The day that view is argued is the day we really need to stop the world. If people want to enter our country legally, have savings, want to work and contribute to our society then come on in. Immigration helped make it a great country to begin with, not from freeloaders. It isn't the only problem don't get me wrong, the left will say we will be in the same position if immigration was tackled (like that is an argument not to tackle it) but as a country we will save billions on allowing them in and putting them up. They can chance their arm in the numerous safe countries they have travelled through to get to us. If we cannot get our own shit together, how can we prioritise others?
Agree with all of this, I would add look at what has happened over the last 40years in Sweden where they went from an indigenous population being one of the wealthiest countries in the world per capital, to allowing in people from every war torn country starting with Afganistan back in 1979.It amazes me the ignorance of the anti flaggers at times and reading this thread. Not realising the purpose and thoughts of the ones doing it, instead very boringly and uneducatedly stereotype everyone and lazily calling people racist. It is pathetic.
On Neville, whilst he doesn't say what happened last week was down to white middle aged men, you have to question the timing of it. Why off the back of innocent jews being killed by a muslim, in a terrorist attack, is he putting out this statement? Whilst I don't agree with his words from his ivory tower, I could accept that was his views had it not been off the back of an attack which had nothing to do with British white middle aged men. You could argue the division that caused that attack was off the back of allowing anti jew hate speech for so long. Just a thought. Ultimately Gary Neville doesn't have a clue, he isn't patriotic because he played for England, he had to and we have heard many times how them players during his time didn't give enough for England so that argument is mute. The country will not unite because the left deem everyone a nazi if you don't agree with their bonkers behaviour. The flag isn't racist, nobody is demanding a white Britain, many want our own seen to first and our own affairs in order before we help everybody else out. I had to wait 5 weeks for a doctors appointment for what was quite an important diagnosis. It isn't racist to say that I want a better service considering the thousands I have paid in taxes and contributions, and I expect better treatment than someone who has come over illegally, put up in a hotel at my expense with NHS facilities on site. The day that view is argued is the day we really need to stop the world. If people want to enter our country legally, have savings, want to work and contribute to our society then come on in. Immigration helped make it a great country to begin with, not from freeloaders. It isn't the only problem don't get me wrong, the left will say we will be in the same position if immigration was tackled (like that is an argument not to tackle it) but as a country we will save billions on allowing them in and putting them up. They can chance their arm in the numerous safe countries they have travelled through to get to us. If we cannot get our own shit together, how can we prioritise others?
Do we have enough homes for the people here still?Net migration was 906,000 in 2023
It's since halved and down to 431,000 in 2024.
Yes I was angry, this has nothing to do with who is in power for me. I want the best for the country. You clearly as I have raised several times now are throwing out cliches and creating your own agenda rather than talking, engaging and listening. Behaving like that causes divisions....were you this angry during 14 years of tory imposed decline?
or have you been whipped up by the hostile press and certain politicians?
Classic leftie bingo card.were you this angry during 14 years of tory imposed decline?
or have you been whipped up by the hostile press and certain politicians?
Do we have enough homes for the people here still?
I am more than aware as I teach a module on the history of housing and understand the issues around it. Immigration doesn't contribute somewhat to it. It contributes significantly if we are not in a position to house the current population. To add to that population is nothing short of fucking madness.the housing shortage is primarily due to insufficient supply. For decades we have built far fewer homes than needed—around 200,000 annually v 300,000 needed. Even if immigration slowed, the supply-demand gap would still exist. Immigration contributes somewhat to housing demand, but it is not the main cause of the housing crisis.
The timing of the flags isn't poor, we all got called racist for putting them up with international tournaments being played. Rewriting history and claiming the flag is an issue only now shouldn't be a thing. It is being used now to say this is our country and we have had enough of everything, not just illegals, the shite we all put up with daily. The irony is, the display of the flag has been hijacked from the left calling it out for something it isn't then having that as their truth. Nothing will change.
I said he didn't blame the attack on the flags, it is just stupid timing to call white middle aged men out off the back off a Muslim terrorist attack. We should be calling out the government for allowing hate speech against jews but we can't say that can we. You believe the flag is being misused. It isn't but like I say you won't want to believe otherwise so we won't ever agree. That is also fine, not everyone will agree on everything.
Classic leftie bingo card.
Everyone that sees things differently from you has been whipped up by social media, Farage, Tommy Robinson.
It’s only 30k asylum seekers we’re housing and they’re all doctors and surgeons anyway.
Bloody hell. And all to defend a little twerp like Neville. Couldn’t make it up.
I am more than aware as I teach a module on the history of housing and understand the issues around it. Immigration doesn't contribute somewhat to it. It contributes significantly if we are not in a position to house the current population. To add to that population is nothing short of fucking madness.
In your opinion the flags are being misused, because that is the angle you have chosen to take on it. It doesn't matter what others say to you, what others in support of the flags are telling you and the purpose behind it. You are stuck in that belief and nothing will change, no problem but step back and see the approach you are taking where you are in a position of not listening to others. You are defining the sentiment behind it when you are not involved in it. You have decided what you think the sentiment is and that's that. You are very wrong but as stated you won't hear otherwise. When people want to call division out, this approach is a good example of it.I'm sorry pal, but the flags are being misused. When the likes of right wing activist groups, or followers of divisive individuals, openly call for people to put up flags to show that specific sentiment - and flags then appear on every lamp post, roundabout etc, that is exactly what it is. And I don't actually think this is lots and lots of individuals all putting out their own flags, but small organised groups doing it.
I don't remember it being an issue at tournaments or anyone claiming that. That is the appropriate time to fly flags. There is a world of difference between that and the movement currently used, argueing that is either naive or maliciois imo.
A number of years ago, in the aftermath of similar attacks in Paris, everyone put up French flags on their socials, cute face paint on their cheeks, backgrounds etc. There and abroad. It was used almost as a symbol of unity, of support, of sympathy. Arguably might have taken it to a point of becoming clichéd fashion. Similar when the Ukrainian flag was flown at the start of that conflict.
The issue isn't the flag. It is the sentiment attributed to it. In this case, it has openly been called for, to show a xenophobic sentiment while hiding in plain sight, and leaving room for distracting discussions like these.
Did you type that with a straight face?well luckily after 14 years of Tories and a Farage Brexit crisis which increased the border crossings we actually have a level headed government sorting the immigration crisis out.