US & Israel attack Iran

[paulchapo]

At what point would you expect them to fight, conscription would likely mean Europe been attacked, don’t wait until the enemy crosses the channel or give it a go a bit earlier?

Personally i couldn't hive a fuck either way, but no way will the majority of today's youngsters be rushing to sign up and fight. This isn't 1939 anymore and the world and people's opinions have changed. I did 42 years in the merchant navy and sailed in a few war zones myself but i wouldn't lift a finger for any of these shitehouse corrupt politicians, not one.

 

[domalino]

Yes you are correct and that's the exact war that has been playing out in front of us. Iran could not strike us directly so it struck our allies such as Qatar, Saudi Arabia or the UAE and then the Strait of Hormuz.

This is an asymmetric war where if there was military equivalence then there is a strong chance that FAR more would be dead and who knows if this would spread further where the UK/NATO would certainly get involved. It only hasn't turned into huge bloodshed because the technological difference in terms of militaries is vast.


The UK measures poverty by the relationship between income and housing/living costs. Estimates of poverty in North Korea are achieved by estimating the number of people who actually die of outright starvation simply because there isn't enough food to keep the population alive. But yes they have $bns+ per year nuclear weapons.

Have you considered the massive, crippling sanctions imposed on both N Korea and Iran might be connected to the level of poverty in both countries?

 

[Vic]

Probably referring to me?

I have said numerous times that I criticise Israel and Netanyahu should be in a dock in the Hague. I just don't get why pepople throw their toys out because I believe that the Iranian regime should be standing there alongside him.

To give a good example, arrest warrants have been issued upon Hamas members for numerous war crimes and yet people on here still support the Iranian regime, the country that arms them? Go figure I guess!

And yes! The US, UK Europe are exactly the same with Israel, it's obviously just an almighty mess isn't it?

Nobody supports the Iranian regime - except in resisting a war of aggression.

And Israel is making a superb job of illustrating how Hamas and Hezbollah justify their resistance to Israel. it's not really even chicken and egg. Hezbollah was created to get the Israeli occupiers out of Lebanon, Hamas against the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

 

[Vic]

No, I was saying that Iran was attacked because of what Iran does elsewhere via its proxies. It wasn't a random attack because Israel or the US got bored and for example fancied some oil.

Ukraine was not attacked at random, it was invaded by a maniacal state which ironically in the context of this thread is one that is armed by the supposedly peaceful state that is Iran............

You had me at "fancied some oil".

 

[We've got Guardiola]

Have you considered the massive, crippling sanctions imposed on both N Korea and Iran might be connected to the level of poverty in both countries?

And again I return to the topic of twattery. Why were those sanctions imposed? Was North Korea naughty perhaps?

Forgive me but you should be asking first whether those sanctions are correct. If North Korea behaved, made peace with the south and corrected its disgraceful human rights record then maybe it wouldn't be sanctioned?

Instead Kim Jong Un accepts sanctions because he needs nuclear weapons so that he can preserve himself. It is exactly the same reason for the Iranian regime to acquire them although they never got there.

How many North Korean troops have died fighting for Russia in Ukraine? It's in the thousands. So we have Iranian drones hitting Ukraine and North Korean troops too.... And people still argue that this axis of the anti-west are saints and it is us in the west who are the bastards.... And we type this through the freedoms and safety of the west....

 

[BTH]

Nobody supports the Iranian regime - except in resisting a war of aggression.

And Israel is making a superb job of illustrating how Hamas and Hezbollah justify their resistance to Israel. it's not really even chicken and egg. Hezbollah was created to get the Israeli occupiers out of Lebanon, Hamas against the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

Gaza, Iran, Lebanon... Who will an emboldened Israel turn its US taxpayer-funded weapons on next?

 

[domalino]

If North Korea behaved, made peace with the south and corrected its disgraceful human rights record then maybe it wouldn't be sanctioned?

You mean like how Iran behaved, signed up to the JPCOA and got sanctioned anyway? Or how they behaved and agreed to give up all HEU and got attacked by the US and Israel anyway?

North Korea largely exists because the Americans deposed the chosen leader of Korea post-Japan, Lyuh Woon-Hung - a man still revered in both Koreas - because he was a communist, and the newly independent people of Korea choosing to become communist, like their neighbours China and Russia, was deemed unacceptable. The US military stepped in, forced him out, instituted the 38th paralell and then banned communism in the South and put in a dictator who killed tens of thousands, sent hundreds of thousands to re-education camps, enacted several massacres (look up Jeju Island) but looked after US interests.

Iran has been under continuous sanctions since it's people decided they no longer wanted to be ruled by a US appointed tyrant who killed hundreds of thousands of them, didn't even bother spending money on things like running water or electricity for most of the country, and siphoned off all their natural resources to his own pockets and US companies.

Both of these countries are aggressive and defensive, and isolated from the rest of the world where tyrannical regimes can survive because they were under attack from their inception because it was deemed to not be in US interests.

That is why they want what has proven to be the ultimate deterrent from being invaded.

Then we in the west look at these regimes we created and tried to stamp out and ask why they can't just behave like everyone else.

Both are shit regimes that commit crimes against their own people, but god knows there's been plenty of those in the last 100 years who didn't get invaded, and weren't closed off to the rest of the world so that eventually democracy could seep in.

 

[Postman Pep]

And people still argue that this axis of the anti-west are saints.

This is the nub of your problem. Nobody is doing that. You are claiming sainthood on behalf of Western imperialism .... the modern version of which is coming apart at the seams.

 

[arbabarshad]

Gaza, Iran, Lebanon... Who will an emboldened Israel turn its US taxpayer-funded weapons on next?

Turkey of course.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

.. And people still argue that this axis of the anti-west are saints and it is us in the west who are the bastards...

Before you post anything else, I’d like you to find just one post here where any poster says “the anti-west are saints.” Just one.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Vance on Faux News saying Lebanon has fuck all to do with the ceasefire.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Massive gamble from Netenyahu.

Trump needs the ceasefire, Trump cut Israel out of the ceasefire talks, Netenyahu is putting Israel directly at odds with what Trump/US needs and wants.

I was going to say that America needs to put it's puppy on the leash but I'm not convinced that it isn't Trump who's the puppy, and Netenyahu is going to take him for another long walk.

 

[We've got Guardiola]

You mean like how Iran behaved, signed up to the JPCOA and got sanctioned anyway? Or how they behaved and agreed to give up all HEU and got attacked by the US and Israel anyway?

North Korea largely exists because the Americans deposed the chosen leader of Korea post-Japan, Lyuh Woon-Hung - a man still revered in both Koreas - because he was a communist, and the newly independent people of Korea choosing to become communist, like their neighbours China and Russia, was deemed unacceptable.

Iran has been under continuous sanctions since it's people decided they no longer wanted to be ruled by a US appointed tyrant who killed millions of them and siphoned off all their natural resources to US companies.

And now both the Iranians and North Koreans have leaders who kill them too and that's if they're not eating rats tonight in the street. The people of those countries gave up their right to democracy for something better and now they will be shot if they dare to stand up and demand the same thing. It's not exactly a better situation is it really?

You only have to look at the transformation of Japan or Germany post-WW2, modern, thriving, safe, rich and fantastic places. How different it could have been? Iran had the real potential to be one of those countries until it decided that anti-western theocracy was more important.

The JPCOA is hard to judge. It prevented Iran's nuclear programme but did it prevent anything else? Economic sanctions were lifted and then the fruits of that were used to arm resistance groups and build the Iranian military/defence industry, many of which are now landing on Ukrainian civilians in Ukraine... As much as I do disagree with Trump for ripping it up, I'll still go out on a limb and say it wasn't the brightest deal ever made.

 

[Irwell]

You only have to look at the transformation of Japan or Germany post-WW2, modern, thriving, safe, rich and fantastic places. How different it could have been? Iran had the real potential to be one of those countries until it decided that anti-western theocracy was more important.

It's amazing how much of a difference sanctions make isn't it.

 

[Kinkybyname]

I'm constantly amazed by the detailed knowledge of the internal machinations of many countries by some posters on here - if I was being cynical I'd suggest they were possibly generating detailed responses to their intentionally slanted questions to suit their arguments... but I'm not that type of guy

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Why are you posting things from 2021 when Trump ripped up the JPCOA in 2018?


You wanted them to stick to their side of the treaty and keep letting inspectors in when the US tore up the treaty and imposed a ton of sanctions on them despite them following the terms asked of them?

The only thing the US had to do to keep nuclear weapons away from Iran was stick to the treaty they signed.

And the only thing they had to do in January was accept the proposed surrender of HEU that was on the table and verified by 2 third parties to the negotiations.

Your bullshit doesn’t wash.

Trump ripping up that treaty caused outrage in pretty much every country (including Britain). Why would anyone sabotage a treaty of such importance when it was working? I think what has happened recently gives us the answer to that question.

 

[We've got Guardiola]

Before you post anything else, I’d like you to find just one post here where any poster says “the anti-west are saints.” Just one.

I started posting on this yesterday by simply saying that both Iran and Israel were bastards and as regimes they are as bad as each other. I have made a few arguments why I think this is starting at the fact that Iran shoots its own citizens and still nobody has agreed with me so far, quite the opposite.

Logically I think that answers your question.

 

[domalino]

I started posting on this yesterday by simply saying that both Iran and Israel were bastards and as regimes they are as bad as each other. I have made a few arguments why I think this is and nobody has agreed with me so far, quite the opposite.

Logically I think that answers your question.

I’ve disagreed with your posts but specified I think the Islamic Republic are bastards and reprehensible multiple times.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

Fox News report Trump had a discussion with Rutte this afternoon about withdrawing from NATO, the world just got that bit darker if it happens ? we have US bases and soldiers all over Europe. What if those bases turned against us.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

This bitch running the presser is basically saying Trump is allowed to threaten and say what He wants to anyone else, illegal or not.

He's also had another dig at NATO. Just fuck the **** off out of our Country.

The rest of NATO should call mad cunts bluff and watch him taco, when he realises every US base in every NATO country is getting shut down as a result.