Keir Starmer

[mosssideblue]

I think as a Prime Minister after getting a huge majority(grrrr fptp) all you need to do at the beginning is get private feelers on policy then announce them with confidence and stay the course. Do not show weakness and back track because then you're pretty much done. Dont be looking at polls and ratings until much nearer election time.
He has no understanding of a lot of his own MP's so he's got fuck all chance with the public.
He has got himself where he tries to placate the right and the left and gets the support of neither.
His obsession with growth and balancing the books to appear prudent and a safe pair of hands has done him.

For me, what’s not helping Labour is their constant insistence on fighting Farage.
Concentrate on running the country, making it a better place and that will negate him.

 

[1961_vintage]

It's staggering how manifestly unsuitable people get the top job in politics when everyone with knowledge of them knows they're unsuitable, but votes for them anyway, most likely in the hope of feathering their own nest.

Jim Hacker. Classic example.

 

[Don Karleone]

11 more needed now.

 

[1961_vintage]

For me, what’s not helping Labour is their constant insistence on fighting Farage.
Concentrate on running the country, making it a better place and that will negate him.

This is the problem. The era of "we're not ...." politics. Examples....

Reform - vote for us - we're not dickhead Starmer.
Greens - vote for us - we're not racist reform.
Labour - as per Greens (but previously we're not sleezy Tories)

Parties and politicians positioning themselves on what they are not, rather than what they are.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I think as a Prime Minister after getting a huge majority(grrrr fptp) all you need to do at the beginning is get private feelers on policy then announce them with confidence and stay the course. Do not show weakness and back track because then you're pretty much done. Dont be looking at polls and ratings until much nearer election time.
He has no understanding of a lot of his own MP's so he's got fuck all chance with the public.
He has got himself where he tries to placate the right and the left and gets the support of neither.
His obsession with growth and balancing the books to appear prudent and a safe pair of hands has done him.

I think having a clue what he's up to would have helped.

PB laid it out perfectly and I cannot remember all his details, but you need a vision out of which comes objectives and a strategy and tactics. But it all needs to join up.

It's no use saying, "Our top priority is growth" if when asked, "and how are you going to deliver that?", the reply is "Fuck, I haven't thought of that".

And plainly they hadn't. Because the first Budget could not have been better constructed as a "kill growth" budget if they had set out to do so.

 

[hilts]

For me, what’s not helping Labour is their constant insistence on fighting Farage.
Concentrate on running the country, making it a better place and that will negate him.

Agree they need to forget about the right(immigration apart) there is no point the Tories and Reform have that ground. My personal hope is a left wing coalition but for those who support labour they had a once in a lifetime chance to change the direction of the country, they should be THE left wing choice.
The Tories are broken, this was it and they went all fucking safe. They had 5 years to let socialist policies produce some good. Its beyond annoying really.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It's staggering how manifestly unsuitable people get the top job in politics when everyone with knowledge of them knows they're unsuitable, but votes for them anyway, most likely in the hope of feathering their own nest.

The Parliamentary Labour Party knew Gordon Brown wasn't suited to being a leader. They knew Corbyn wasn't. They knew Starmer wasn't. The Tories knew Johnson was an absolute rogue, and that Truss was a complete lunatic. Yet all of them got the leadership, and all bar Corbyn, actually got to run the country.

Then when they've stepped down, they'll say "We knew his faults/was the wrong person." And they almost certainly did know.

Where is their fucking integrity? Why did no one stand up and say "Hang on, he's not fit to lead the party and run the country and you all know that'"?

I think what you’re trying to say, is that I’d (as in me, not you) would be better than any of those cunts at running the country, and you’d be absolutely fucking right.

However, who in their right minds would want to do that job in this day and age, other than sociopaths and serious fucking weirdos?

Horrible existence.

 

[mosssideblue]

This is the problem. The era of "we're not ...." politics. Examples....

Reform - vote for us - we're not dickhead Starmer.
Greens - vote for us - we're not racist reform.
Labour - as per Greens (but previously we're not sleezy Tories)

Parties and politicians positioning themselves on what they are not, rather than what they are.

I fully support the need to make sure Farage and his grifters don’t get the keys to no10, but go about it by improving the state of the country, not spend so much bandwidth claiming how disastrous Reform would be.

Do that, and the Farage threat disappears.

 

[Don Karleone]

Agree they need to forget about the right(immigration apart) there is no point the Tories and Reform have that ground. My personal hope is a left wing coalition but for those who support labour they had a once in a lifetime chance to change the direction of the country, they should be THE left wing choice.
The Tories are broken, this was it and they went all fucking safe. They had 5 years to let socialist policies produce some good. Its beyond annoying really.

You'll get Wes Streeting and like it. The left were told to leave, and this is the result.

 

[blueinsa]

Look at you waltzing around here taking the piss. Don't try and twist what people mean.

Threads dead remember ;-)

 

[Blue Note]

Going off the results of the local elections, people have made their minds up about him. They might have been local elections but it is evident the collapse of Labour is primarily down to his leadership. I have seen loads of interviews with people about why they voted Reform, and it was because they didn't like Starmer. If he is leader at the next general election we will have a Reform government.

Many good councillors have lost their jobs as a result of his leadership.

I really don't see how he turns this round.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Come off it Vic, you're better than this.

We were losing our steelmaking capacity etc way before any Brexit vote, as you well know.

Yes mainly under thatcher if I remember correctly …. Fuckin politicians are all dickheads .

 

[Chippy_boy]

I fully support the need to make sure Farage and his grifters don’t get the keys to no10, but go about it by improving the state of the country, not spend so much bandwidth claiming how disastrous Reform would be.

Do that, and the Farage threat disappears.

Whilst I completely disagree with your opening few words, I do agree that the Reform - and every other threat - disappears if you enact some policies that make peoples' lives better.

But the problem Labour have is they don't have those policies. It's fundamentally a broken strategy to penalise success so you can reward the unsuccessful.

Can you imagine any business where bonuses were handed out to the bottom performing sales people, whilst the top performers got their pay docked?

Funnily enough, no such company schemes exist, because doing so would be lunacy. The top sales staff would think fuck this for a lark, and would go and find another job. Whilst the lazy or useless ones would think it was marvellous.

And that in a nutshell is what is wrong with "tax the rich, tax the rich". To get growth we need to get the state of people's back, reward success and incentives people to start businesses, hire people, grow their business.

Not clobber them as soon as they are remotely successful. People need to be able to keep more of what they earn, not hand half of it over to an inept government.

 

[jimharri]

63 Labour MPs now calling for him to go. That's a not insignificant minority (over 15%). Not sure how he can continue to lead the party, knowing that over 1 in every 7 MPs want him gone. A figure that could likely increase in the coming days.

 

[mancityvstoke]

And you think Russia will invade the UK instead of say Finland, which just happens to be next door with a thousand miles of shared border? Or an incoming nuclear strike on the UK from China?

Ok you've convinced me. It's Labour for me. I surrender to the power of your argument.

If Russia attack Finland they’d get a serious kicking . Compared to the UK their military are both willing and more capable than ours.

 

[hilts]

I think having a clue what he's up to would have helped.

PB laid it out perfectly and I cannot remember all his details, but you need a vision out of which comes objectives and a strategy and tactics. But it all needs to join up.

It's no use saying, "Our top priority is growth" if when asked, "and how are you going to deliver that?", the reply is "Fuck, I haven't thought of that".

And plainly they hadn't. Because the first Budget could not have been better constructed as a "kill growth" budget if they had set out to do so.

What people need to understand is the country is pretty evenly split and the local elections plus polls show that. Add Tory Reform together and labour libs greens snp together and its really 50/50.
Previously the main parties tactics was to grab a little of the others demographic ie middle England, think Blair being more business friendly then Cameron with his Green tree, hug a hoodie more empathy. I think things have changed. There aren't just 2 options now. You need to choose as a party what you believe in. Labour are losing left wing votes, that should scare them.

 

[hilts]

63 Labour MPs now calling for him to go. That's a not insignificant minority (over 15%). Not sure how he can continue to lead the party, knowing that over 1 in every 7 MPs want him gone. A figure that could likely increase in the coming days.

Will be much higher, those who don't want to rock the boat without having the numbers publicly. If he cared about the party and country he should really go. Its gonna be messy but I think Rayner or Burnham will be the next leader.

 

[Monkfish]

Starmer is done but I’m struggling to think of anyone other than Burnham who gives Labour a chance next election

Not sure if he is actually a man of some substance or just talks a good game but Keir does neither

 

[hilts]

You'll get Wes Streeting and like it. The left were told to leave, and this is the result.

Don't think we will, too many in the party are aware of what he is.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Unlucky in what respect GDM?

And would you say that anyone else that had been in his position would also have suffered the same misfortunes?

That’s two questions that I need to think about. And your second question in particular needs considering.