City Vs Seville Champions League Post Match Thread

Not sure I get all the negativity, we beat a very good side with our three best players missing and limited options due to injury and squad restrictions.

We dominated the first 20 minutes, more composure we'd have taken the lead and the pressure would have been off, much like the Juventus game.

Then a very good Seville took controle. Nothing to do with a 2 man midfield, they pummeled us down the flanks. Zabaleta was awful and Sagna may be able to fill in against Bournemouth at left back, but against a very good European side it's very different.

We won Saturday easily, 5-1, should have been 6, could have been 8. Are we expecting our manager to make lots of changes? I wasn't. If he did and we didn't win comfortably he'd have been slated for 'changing a winning side'.

Since when is 4231 a 442? Even if it were 442, should a 4 not out number a 3? Especially when Navas is incredibly hard working, DeBruyne is not a left winger and Sterling is not a centre forward.
It's all very well and good playing 3 centre mids, but Toure, Fernando and Fernadinho didn't work at Spurs, Toure to his own discredit doesn't perform like Silva or Nasri in the '10' role, he basically plays with his back to goal and is no where near as effective as he is coming from deep.

So even if we do go with the Ferns and Ya Ya, what do people suggest then?

Leave Navas out? That would have been a fantastic idea, Zabaleta got slaughtered down their left, that was with Navas' help, imagine without. Imagine the critisium Pellegrini's tactical knowledge would have received had they tore us apart even more down their left?

Leave Sterling out? On the back of a hatrick, and our best counter attacking threat?

Leave DeBuyne out? Not going to even dignify that.

Leave Bony out? Play with no striker 4 days after he scored 2. Not an option.

Pellegrini made some very big mid game calls, got them all correct. If other managers had pulled a striker off and put on a defensive midfielder on and won the game on the back of that very move they'd have been lauded. Pellegrini has now changed the last 2 CL games with fairly unpopular calls.

To bring on the much slated Navas and Fernando at Mönchengladbach was not popular but it changed the game.
He made a call last night to solidify the midfield and hit them with a swift counter, it worked perfectly.
Pellegrini can't win in some eyes, there was some uproar when Zabaleta was brought off, yes I love him but he was toss last night, the defensive swap made us much more balanced and solid.
But just because Zaba is a crowd favourite and Kolarov focus of the boo boys people weren't happy. Pellegrini is watching the game, he made perfect calls last night.

Finally, we've 6/9 in the CL this season, we lost to Juve, we controlled that game and on another day would have won 3-0. Yet Juventus stuck in there, ground out an undeserved win. Were they questioned? No, their experience and ability to grind out a result was praised.

We grind out a few wins, are we praised for our resilience, our ability to grind out wins? No. Just fans slagging various performances.
 
Fantastic result, maybe the manager could be a bit more pragmatic at times. De Bruyne is class, hopefully we can come back from Seville unbeaten .
 
BillyShears said:
We know. You've been telling us weekly for two years.
Click to expand...
Ha, I like the way you try to call me out for being repetitive. Not like you spent a few years churning out the same stuff about Mancini ad nauseum is it Billy? And I'm not saying that because I had a problem with it because I largely agreed with you, just making the point that when you saw stuff you didn't like, by christ did we know about it! Anyway, I promise I will stop when he gets his expensive defenders defending and gives up on this utterly dross "defensive system" that is supposedly very technical but seems to be so technical that no defender at the club can fathom it out after two fucking years. Engineer my arse.
 
Any decent team requires a set way of playing, and implementing that style consistently. Offensively, we play good stuff, and have done so since Pellegrini has come in. But defensively, and off the ball, we are quite frankly, fucking awful. Last night was the epitome of our flaws. We seem to have no idea what we are supposed to be doing. Are we supposed to press, or are we supposed to be sitting off? It's ridiculous. Sometimes we press (half heartedly), and then sometimes we sit so far off the ball and invite people into open space. That has to lie with the manager. 3 years we have had this problem and lack of work rate, and last night wasn't the only game where it has been noticeable , so why has he not changed it?

Secondly, why, why, why is Pellegrini persisting with 4-4-2? Fair enough you can comfortably take a poor Bournemouth team apart, but you can't do it to a better, well organised European side. It was exactly the same last year, we pissed all over a poor Newcastle team with 4-4-2 and then Pellegrini thought we could do the same against the best team in the world a few days later. I don't know what it is. It's either an unbelievable case of ignorance and naivety, or straight up stubborness. For some reason Pellegrini perceives 5 midfielders to be a negative approach. If anything it allows you to be more offensive, by controlling the game and sustaining your attacks as opposed to counter attacking teams and playing an end to end game.

And the fact that Yaya Toure stills gets in the team is frustrating in itself. It pains me to criticise a man who has given us so much over the years, but he is a hindrance on this team unfortunately. A few years ago when he is bagging 20 goals a season, you can argue that he makes up for his lack of defensive work rate with his attacking threat. But these days, he doesn't contribute enough positives to forget the negatives frequently outlined when watching his defending and work rate. Granted he had a hand in both goals last night, but that was probably the most he ran all game. He literally lets people walk past him and when he attempts to press the ball, it could not be any slower.

People say he causes the problem in a 4-4-2 and he needs to play as the number 10. Whilst I agree he is better near the opposition goal than his own, even from there he doesn't get back! Your attacking midfielders needs to drop back even if his prime task is to attack. If that midfielder doesn't drop back, you're practically playing a 4-4-2 which is, as we all know, too easy to play against. So Toure either ups his effort or doesn't play in my book.

After all those negatives you'd think I booed when KDB scored the winner, but I screamed my head off. The guy is world class. Absolute top player. Navas also had a great night.

The result was massive for us and obviously I am happy we won, but to bask in the fact we won and to forget the dross that preceded KDB's magic is just papering over the cracks. There were huge problems in that team last night and by God I hope they get solved by Sunday otherwise the rags will smell blood and make it a very tough afternoon for us.
 
schfc6 said:
Not sure I get all the negativity, we beat a very good side with our three best players missing and limited options due to injury and squad restrictions.

We dominated the first 20 minutes, more composure we'd have taken the lead and the pressure would have been off, much like the Juventus game.

Then a very good Seville took controle. Nothing to do with a 2 man midfield, they pummeled us down the flanks. Zabaleta was awful and Sagna may be able to fill in against Bournemouth at left back, but against a very good European side it's very different.

We won Saturday easily, 5-1, should have been 6, could have been 8. Are we expecting our manager to make lots of changes? I wasn't. If he did and we didn't win comfortably he'd have been slated for 'changing a winning side'.

Since when is 4231 a 442? Even if it were 442, should a 4 not out number a 3? Especially when Navas is incredibly hard working, DeBruyne is not a left winger and Sterling is not a centre forward.
It's all very well and good playing 3 centre mids, but Toure, Fernando and Fernadinho didn't work at Spurs, Toure to his own discredit doesn't perform like Silva or Nasri in the '10' role, he basically plays with his back to goal and is no where near as effective as he is coming from deep.

So even if we do go with the Ferns and Ya Ya, what do people suggest then?

Leave Navas out? That would have been a fantastic idea, Zabaleta got slaughtered down their left, that was with Navas' help, imagine without. Imagine the critisium Pellegrini's tactical knowledge would have received had they tore us apart even more down their left?

Leave Sterling out? On the back of a hatrick, and our best counter attacking threat?

Leave DeBuyne out? Not going to even dignify that.

Leave Bony out? Play with no striker 4 days after he scored 2. Not an option.

Pellegrini made some very big mid game calls, got them all correct. If other managers had pulled a striker off and put on a defensive midfielder on and won the game on the back of that very move they'd have been lauded. Pellegrini has now changed the last 2 CL games with fairly unpopular calls.

To bring on the much slated Navas and Fernando at Mönchengladbach was not popular but it changed the game.
He made a call last night to solidify the midfield and hit them with a swift counter, it worked perfectly.
Pellegrini can't win in some eyes, there was some uproar when Zabaleta was brought off, yes I love him but he was toss last night, the defensive swap made us much more balanced and solid.
But just because Zaba is a crowd favourite and Kolarov focus of the boo boys people weren't happy. Pellegrini is watching the game, he made perfect calls last night.

Finally, we've 6/9 in the CL this season, we lost to Juve, we controlled that game and on another day would have won 3-0. Yet Juventus stuck in there, ground out an undeserved win. Were they questioned? No, their experience and ability to grind out a result was praised.

We grind out a few wins, are we praised for our resilience, our ability to grind out wins? No. Just fans slagging various performances.
Click to expand...


Well, I was bound to put down a few words about the comments on here. But you did the job for me. Agree on everything you say really.
Maybe I can add I understand some of the negativity (and probably you do as well) because we didn't play well and it was a performance that was typical to our CL-games we play at home. It's like the players freeze or have led in their feet. It is very strange to watch and I am at the point of getting a few psychiatrists in to examin what's been happening as soon as the players walk out and the CL anthem starts to play.
 
Quite a lot of good sense in the above post (by schfc6). And it bears repeating, we were lacking our three world class players.
We played well against Juventus and lost. We played poorly against Sevilla and won. That's Europe.
But I think back to those first five games of the season, and I have to wonder what's happened. That back line was rock solid for those first games. There wasn't the sniff of a chance for the opposition. It wasn't that we were lucky. We just didn't give anything to the opposition, and the rare times we did, Joe was there.
Time and again last night we were ripped open down the flanks. We really, really rode our luck. With the attacking options we have, we'll always score goals. But it's at the back that I'm now seriously worried.We haven't kept a clean sheet since the beginning of Vinny's injury problem. Sevilla can definitely feel aggrieved. They didn't actually have that many shots on goal — fewer than ours — but it was the space that they constantly found for themselves…
Anyway, totally chuffed about the three points, of course, like everyone. I'll take them and run like a thief, no problem.
 
Good to see Navas getting plaudits after all the slagging he took last season on this forum.Honestly, he was our most buzzing player, in attack. Would truly love to see him get a goal. That shot he took from the edge of the box was very close.
 
supercity88 said:
When Pellegrini was in charge of Malaga he generally played a more attacking formation at home and a more conservative one away. Because we won last night we're now in a good position and I think we'll see more of a tactical switch to ensure we don't get beat in the away leg. We'll still try to win the game but we'll bolster the midfield in my opinion, and similarly against Juventus.

It was a huge game last night and it's a fantastic win. Sevilla haven't started La Liga well but they've beaten Barca and they're an unbelievable side in Europe. Their recent record is incredible even if it's in the Europa League, they've the style of play and the knowledge of how to win games on the European stage and we're generally quite the opposite aside from some small exceptions.

To beat them last night was a great result with the players we had missing.
Click to expand...


Great to read. Good stuff ;-)
 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
Quite a lot of good sense in the above post (by schfc6). And it bears repeating, we were lacking our three world class players.
We played well against Juventus and lost. We played poorly against Sevilla and won. That's Europe.
But I think back to those first five games of the season, and I have to wonder what's happened. That back line was rock solid for those first games. There wasn't the sniff of a chance for the opposition. It wasn't that we were lucky. We just didn't give anything to the opposition, and the rare times we did, Joe was there.
Time and again last night we were ripped open down the flanks. We really, really rode our luck. With the attacking options we have, we'll always score goals. But it's at the back that I'm now seriously worried.We haven't kept a clean sheet since the beginning of Vinny's injury problem. Sevilla can definitely feel aggrieved. They didn't actually have that many shots on goal — fewer than ours — but it was the space that they constantly found for themselves…
Anyway, totally chuffed about the three points, of course, like everyone. I'll take them and run like a thief, no problem.
Click to expand...


Not that I'm suggesting it, but DeBruyne wasn't part of the first 4 games where we were excellent. Everyone thought it was obvious. Navas out DeBruyne in. I'm not the only one who can see that it's not going to be that simple surely?
DeBruyne is a World class talent, so when everyone is fit, it's where the manager will hopefully earn his corn. Don't envy him there.

@eversince 76', it shouldn't do, they are incredibly well paid professionals, but the fans indifference to the competition simply can't help.
I'm not a big fan of the CL and the attendance was decent last night, but atmosphere was dead. You'd think after years of team controlling the game and rolling us over at home would give us great preparation for the Champs League, it hasn't. My bet, 40% of the ground on CL nights weren't even at York away...
 
schfc6 said:
Not sure I get all the negativity, we beat a very good side with our three best players missing and limited options due to injury and squad restrictions.

We dominated the first 20 minutes, more composure we'd have taken the lead and the pressure would have been off, much like the Juventus game.

Then a very good Seville took controle. Nothing to do with a 2 man midfield, they pummeled us down the flanks. Zabaleta was awful and Sagna may be able to fill in against Bournemouth at left back, but against a very good European side it's very different.

We won Saturday easily, 5-1, should have been 6, could have been 8. Are we expecting our manager to make lots of changes? I wasn't. If he did and we didn't win comfortably he'd have been slated for 'changing a winning side'.

Since when is 4231 a 442? Even if it were 442, should a 4 not out number a 3? Especially when Navas is incredibly hard working, DeBruyne is not a left winger and Sterling is not a centre forward.
It's all very well and good playing 3 centre mids, but Toure, Fernando and Fernadinho didn't work at Spurs, Toure to his own discredit doesn't perform like Silva or Nasri in the '10' role, he basically plays with his back to goal and is no where near as effective as he is coming from deep.

So even if we do go with the Ferns and Ya Ya, what do people suggest then?

Leave Navas out? That would have been a fantastic idea, Zabaleta got slaughtered down their left, that was with Navas' help, imagine without. Imagine the critisium Pellegrini's tactical knowledge would have received had they tore us apart even more down their left?

Leave Sterling out? On the back of a hatrick, and our best counter attacking threat?

Leave DeBuyne out? Not going to even dignify that.

Leave Bony out? Play with no striker 4 days after he scored 2. Not an option.

Pellegrini made some very big mid game calls, got them all correct. If other managers had pulled a striker off and put on a defensive midfielder on and won the game on the back of that very move they'd have been lauded. Pellegrini has now changed the last 2 CL games with fairly unpopular calls.

To bring on the much slated Navas and Fernando at Mönchengladbach was not popular but it changed the game.
He made a call last night to solidify the midfield and hit them with a swift counter, it worked perfectly.
Pellegrini can't win in some eyes, there was some uproar when Zabaleta was brought off, yes I love him but he was toss last night, the defensive swap made us much more balanced and solid.
But just because Zaba is a crowd favourite and Kolarov focus of the boo boys people weren't happy. Pellegrini is watching the game, he made perfect calls last night.

Finally, we've 6/9 in the CL this season, we lost to Juve, we controlled that game and on another day would have won 3-0. Yet Juventus stuck in there, ground out an undeserved win. Were they questioned? No, their experience and ability to grind out a result was praised.

We grind out a few wins, are we praised for our resilience, our ability to grind out wins? No. Just fans slagging various performances.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately some fans want Pellegrini out. They want change for changes sake. Imagine if Pep arrived and we started performing like Chelsea? No that couldn't happen.....could it?
 
Pell not Pep ;-) said:
Unfortunately some fans want Pellegrini out. They want change for changes sake. Imagine if Pep arrived and we started performing like Chelsea? No that couldn't happen.....could it?
Click to expand...

The idea that Pep is a magic pill is nonsense and most of the people clamouring for Pellegrini to be fucked off so he can be brought in will be saying the same things about Pep in a year's time - too naive, no plan b, too attacking, not pragmatic enough.

It's a tired old debate and point but the owners have decided along with Ferran and Txiki the direction in which they want to go on the pitch. That direction means to some extent we will always be susceptible to being counter attacked and we will always have moments where the back four look all over the place.
 
I thought Navas and Mangala were our best players.

Watched it back this morning and it's amazing how snapshots achieve so much resonance with certain pundits and observers, I can only put this down to the cult of personality.

Against Bournemouth at the weekend, Yaya wriggles past three of the lamest challenges you could wish to see, and he gets a free pass, when bog-standard players were running off the back of him for 45 minutes..

And last night, he's involved in our two goals, but as I said, it's simply death by a thousand cuts with him in the side.

His race is run, it was run 12 months ago IMO.

Some have rightly stated Sevilla's attacks came down the flanks, which is indeed correct.

What some have failed to appreciate is that lack of an extra body in the midfield area, coupled with Toure failing to make a tackle of any note, allows them and other opponents to slip the ball wide because he is always ahead of the ball.

The only analogy I can make is Otamendi can make a decent tackle on occasion, but it doesn't justify his inclusion at present.

Toure is being shoe-horned into a team that has started to evolve once again, he is neither use nor ornament in the No.10 or further back from the start of the games.

I don't understand why Manuel can't reconcile that we do have a superb impact player in Yaya when the time calls for it. Whether to bulldoze and chase a game we are behind in, or to control the ball and see out a win.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
I don't understand why Manuel can't reconcile that we do have a superb impact player in Yaya when the time calls for it. Whether to bulldoze and chase a game we are behind in, or to control the ball and see out a win.
Click to expand...

I suspect the issue with Toure as a sub is that A) he's still our best central midfield player even with his legs gone and is far better than both the Ferns and B) if you bench him he has the capacity to go rogue ala Tevez.

In the old days the rags would've been hailed for last night's victory. Never say die spirit, don't know when they're beaten, all that shite. Since it's us though the narrative is that we're just shit in Europe!
 
Lancet Fluke said:
Ha, I like the way you try to call me out for being repetitive. Not like you spent a few years churning out the same stuff about Mancini ad nauseum is it Billy? And I'm not saying that because I had a problem with it because I largely agreed with you, just making the point that when you saw stuff you didn't like, by christ did we know about it! Anyway, I promise I will stop when he gets his expensive defenders defending and gives up on this utterly dross "defensive system" that is supposedly very technical but seems to be so technical that no defender at the club can fathom it out after two fucking years. Engineer my arse.
Click to expand...

I realise I didn't put an emoticon after my post, but I was genuinely kidding. A little irony considering our history both shared and otherwise on the forum!
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
I thought Navas and Mangala were our best players.

Watched it back this morning and it's amazing how snapshots achieve so much resonance with certain pundits and observers, I can only put this down to the cult of personality.

Against Bournemouth at the weekend, Yaya wriggles past three of the lamest challenges you could wish to see, and he gets a free pass, when bog-standard players were running off the back of him for 45 minutes..

And last night, he's involved in our two goals, but as I said, it's simply death by a thousand cuts with him in the side.

His race is run, it was run 12 months ago IMO.

Some have rightly stated Sevilla's attacks came down the flanks, which is indeed correct.

What some have failed to appreciate is that lack of an extra body in the midfield area, coupled with Toure failing to make a tackle of any note, allows them and other opponents to slip the ball wide because he is always ahead of the ball.

The only analogy I can make is Otamendi can make a decent tackle on occasion, but it doesn't justify his inclusion at present.

Toure is being shoe-horned into a team that has started to evolve once again, he is neither use nor ornament in the No.10 or further back from the start of the games.

I don't understand why Manuel can't reconcile that we do have a superb impact player in Yaya when the time calls for it. Whether to bulldoze and chase a game we are behind in, or to control the ball and see out a win.
Click to expand...
Completely agree re- toure. I dont think that he will settle as an impact player as he won't sit on the bench. Negatives now outweigh positives and I think it's time for city to move on, try and get good money for him. Ideally get him to nycfc.
 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
Quite a lot of good sense in the above post (by schfc6). And it bears repeating, we were lacking our three world class players.
We played well against Juventus and lost. We played poorly against Sevilla and won. That's Europe.
But I think back to those first five games of the season, and I have to wonder what's happened. That back line was rock solid for those first games. There wasn't the sniff of a chance for the opposition. It wasn't that we were lucky. We just didn't give anything to the opposition, and the rare times we did, Joe was there.
Time and again last night we were ripped open down the flanks. We really, really rode our luck. With the attacking options we have, we'll always score goals. But it's at the back that I'm now seriously worried.We haven't kept a clean sheet since the beginning of Vinny's injury problem. Sevilla can definitely feel aggrieved. They didn't actually have that many shots on goal — fewer than ours — but it was the space that they constantly found for themselves…
Anyway, totally chuffed about the three points, of course, like everyone. I'll take them and run like a thief, no problem.
Click to expand...
That's not an accurate reflection of it though. Yes, we were defensively a lot more solid back then than we are at the moment, but several opposition goals were ruled out during that initial run of results we had
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top