PrestwichPeteMcfc
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Only watched ep1. They skip over the incident of him throwing a cat on a fire like it's just what kids do
Making a Murderer
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Bigga
Well-Known Member
He intimated that he regretted it as it was the family cat.
They're[the Averys] also a family of hunters that mainly live off the land, so an animal death is no big thing, really.
What gets me is that cnut Lenk and how he cropped up during the arrests and imprisonments.
How was it not made more of that the Manitowoc Dept got involved with prejudice?
He can't be set free now cos his lawsuit would bankrupt the county!
And that's what this, essentially, boils down to.
Dubai Blue
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Do you think the fact that a lot of these people are elected contributes to the problem? I watched West of Memphis yesterday and that was clearly a factor in that gross miscarriage of justice.
There were certain officials who only cared about securing their own reputations rather than getting to the truth, because no small-town sheriff/prosecutor/DA is ever going to get re-elected if they can't nail the killers of 3 young children.
The prosecutor in that case as good as admitted that his main motivation was what the voters thought of him. That can't possibly be a healthy situation for justice to prevail.
SPOILERS AHEAD DONT READ IF YOU WANT TO GO IN FRESH
The case is so dodgy. I'll admit now I only watched up to ep 4 and then skipped to the end and watched ep 9 & 10 - so sorry if I've missed out some key info. I've also listened to his excellent defence lawyers give their overall account of the case. No physical evidence bar from the blood stain in the victims car (which they're investigating now apparently to see if it was planted by the police as apparently they already had a sample of Stevens blood) him being a accused of the crime while he was heavily involved in a huge lawsuit which would cause mass embarrassment & cost the authorities tens of millions of dollars in damages, the way the search teams vacated Steven and his wife from the premises and only found the key of the car on the FIFTH search of his home...it really doesn't add up whatsoever.
I'll echo others too the way Brendan was treated with the police feeding him lies, basically persuading him to say what they wanted to hear to get him locked up. One of many things that really turned my stomach which particularly stood out, was when one of the officers said something along the lines of "whatever you tell us we'll let you go home to your family". The lad clearly had/has learning difficulties and they took blatant advantage of that and knew they'd get some sort of psedo-confession out of him without letting him have an attorney present; which again is bent as fuck.
I just hope with the insane amount of exposure this documentary has amassed somebody comes forward with new evidence which will enable a re-trial for the pair of them as this case 100% isn't as black and white as it comes across. Feel so sorry Stevens mother, Dolores most of all, to go through this horrible ordeal twice must have taken its emotional tole on her.
The case is so dodgy. I'll admit now I only watched up to ep 4 and then skipped to the end and watched ep 9 & 10 - so sorry if I've missed out some key info. I've also listened to his excellent defence lawyers give their overall account of the case. No physical evidence bar from the blood stain in the victims car (which they're investigating now apparently to see if it was planted by the police as apparently they already had a sample of Stevens blood) him being a accused of the crime while he was heavily involved in a huge lawsuit which would cause mass embarrassment & cost the authorities tens of millions of dollars in damages, the way the search teams vacated Steven and his wife from the premises and only found the key of the car on the FIFTH search of his home...it really doesn't add up whatsoever.
I'll echo others too the way Brendan was treated with the police feeding him lies, basically persuading him to say what they wanted to hear to get him locked up. One of many things that really turned my stomach which particularly stood out, was when one of the officers said something along the lines of "whatever you tell us we'll let you go home to your family". The lad clearly had/has learning difficulties and they took blatant advantage of that and knew they'd get some sort of psedo-confession out of him without letting him have an attorney present; which again is bent as fuck.
I just hope with the insane amount of exposure this documentary has amassed somebody comes forward with new evidence which will enable a re-trial for the pair of them as this case 100% isn't as black and white as it comes across. Feel so sorry Stevens mother, Dolores most of all, to go through this horrible ordeal twice must have taken its emotional tole on her.
I have to be honest mate, Making a Murderer is one of the best I've seen and the ones I've watched in the past aren't very similar. However, prior to this, the best one I have seen is called 'The Staircase", and is similar in a sense.
Without spoiling it, it follows a case in Canada where there are suspicious circumstances and it's a case of who do you believe. Another brilliantly made documentary series, 8 part series from what I remember. Well worth a watch if you enjoyed Making a Murderer.
Yeah this is what leaves a really bad taste in your mouth about the whole approach of the yank prosecutors in it. It's an attitude of achieve a conviction at all costs, regardless of what the real story is.
Watched it all in the past 24 hours. Had to keep reminding myself to stop enjoying it as it was essentially a snuff movie. These were real people going through mental turture.
I verged on Tears when Brendan or his mother couldn't understand "inconsistent", when he was trying to understand why he'd miss wrestlemania and when he said he was stupid. And the most sickening part of the lot was O'Reilly's emails about the Averys. Poor kid just went to school and is essentially kidnapped and manipulated. Beggars belief that there were no child or mental authorities pulled in - given the consequences.
I could see him doing anything his uncle told him to do ... but the lack of any of his DNA and the nature of his interviews convince me he really had no part in any crime. And if he's innocent then how did the bullet fit in. And if that's not there and with doubt over other pieces it's doubtful that Steven did it either.
I just can't see the sense either in Steve murdering anyone at home. Maybe a crime of passion would make sense. But to not make a better job of ridding yourself of the car of the body just seems completely unbelievable.
As an aside...Someone I know got in trouble as a kid growing up in the U.S. with the local town police and it showed me that once you are known there is no hope. So glad he left the area before it became impossible. What happened to these people could very easily have happened to this kid. There was a vengence and determination amongst the cops that was shocking to any normal person...especially when you are looking in as a foreigner.
I verged on Tears when Brendan or his mother couldn't understand "inconsistent", when he was trying to understand why he'd miss wrestlemania and when he said he was stupid. And the most sickening part of the lot was O'Reilly's emails about the Averys. Poor kid just went to school and is essentially kidnapped and manipulated. Beggars belief that there were no child or mental authorities pulled in - given the consequences.
I could see him doing anything his uncle told him to do ... but the lack of any of his DNA and the nature of his interviews convince me he really had no part in any crime. And if he's innocent then how did the bullet fit in. And if that's not there and with doubt over other pieces it's doubtful that Steven did it either.
I just can't see the sense either in Steve murdering anyone at home. Maybe a crime of passion would make sense. But to not make a better job of ridding yourself of the car of the body just seems completely unbelievable.
As an aside...Someone I know got in trouble as a kid growing up in the U.S. with the local town police and it showed me that once you are known there is no hope. So glad he left the area before it became impossible. What happened to these people could very easily have happened to this kid. There was a vengence and determination amongst the cops that was shocking to any normal person...especially when you are looking in as a foreigner.
That conversation between Brendan and his mother broke my bloody heart. When his mother tells him she doesn't know what the word inconsistent means either; smacked me right in the gut. You've not only got a kid in absolutely no mental state to be dealing with two seasoned investigators on his own (or anyone from the police or prosecution), but you knew his mother couldn't have helped him either. Coming off the back of what a clear complete scumbag his lawyer and his investigator were, he was all alone and worse, wouldn't have understood. I hope for his sake ignorance was bliss, because that sounds fucking terrifying to me.
Just finished the last episode now. Fuming really. Lenk and Coleburn should have long since gone through criminal trials of their own. I could type pages and pages on it but I would likely throw my phone out of the window before I finished. I'd also like to see if there was much the documentary left out, as the missus has already bought up a couple of extra bits that don't sound too good for the defence.
A lot of the focus is obviously on Avery but there was a worse miscarriage of justice for Brendan, especially the state supreme court not even bothering to hear the case despite the actions of his legal team. At the very least he deserves a fair retrial, if you can even get one of those with his past.
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Deleted member 41424
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Who was constantly calling her on the phone?
The blood in the boot, says she was in the boot at some point. If she was raped and killed in Stevens house would he have put her back in the car?
After checking the bedroom numerous times, is it possible they constantly overlooked the keys?
Bullet was found in the garage but no traces of the victims blood on all that junk?
Why were other members of the family who lived in close proximity not properly investigated?
Steven Avery was waiting on millions of pounds in compensation, to commit murder whilst going through that process isn't likely to me.
For somebody to attempt to not pay Avery millions of state money is more likely to me.
I believe somebody on the Avery compound killed the woman just not Steven Avery....
The blood in the boot, says she was in the boot at some point. If she was raped and killed in Stevens house would he have put her back in the car?
After checking the bedroom numerous times, is it possible they constantly overlooked the keys?
Bullet was found in the garage but no traces of the victims blood on all that junk?
Why were other members of the family who lived in close proximity not properly investigated?
Steven Avery was waiting on millions of pounds in compensation, to commit murder whilst going through that process isn't likely to me.
For somebody to attempt to not pay Avery millions of state money is more likely to me.
I believe somebody on the Avery compound killed the woman just not Steven Avery....
Bigga
Well-Known Member
They HAVE to find him guilty. That's why all the same people on the prosecution and the bench are the same throughout.
If he ever gets found to be 'innocent' the state litigation and civil litigations would bankrupt the state and everyone involved against Avery and his cousin, Dassey.
They're not getting out.
They can't.
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Deleted member 41424
Guest
agreed and that's why its bullshit.
Its hard because I believe she was killed on the property and that means there will always be questions against Avery.
Dasseys' mothers' boyfriend and his brother are the ones I suspect.
They mention the numerous calls to her mobile, so why they couldn't just trace them back i'll never know. Shit I could have done that. They had the records right there.
Then theres the ex-boyfriend and her brother that knew her passwords and listened to her messages.
Something is way off and it all points somewhere other than Avery...
Super Joey Hart
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What an amazing documentary had me completely gripped, just gutted about the outcome.
For no reason at all they decided to find him guilty of raping that woman and he lost 18 years of his life and simply because he was seeking the money for the loss of those 18 years (the money was a complete joke by the way it should have been multi millions of dollars) they decided to frame him because they now has a vendetta against him.
People always ask who has a motive towards the person they have murdered? Well in my opinion it's more a question of who has a motive against each other... Steve Avery against the police/sheriff department or the police/sheriff department against Steve Avery? Does that really need to be answered, the police hated him for making them look like fools. Whereas Steve just got on with the case for his money and went about his daily life to be honest he seemed very calm considering he lost 18 years of his life because someone didn't like him
For what it's worth something never sat right with me with her brother, the ex and the roommate. It's the way the ex was adamant that she and the roommate had never had sex and was just friends, He looks like a jealous ex who couldn't let go of her then found out they was sleeping together, he then followed her waiting for her to leave Averys then killing her brutally not far from Averys yard then fleeing, then the rest is history.
The police find the remains near Averys yard leaving them believing no matter what he did it, they then shutoff any access to the area then let the framing commence, fucking hell it was the biggest framing I've ever read about or watched, like he's going to leave her teeth and bones next to his house and prop a couple of twigs up over the car as if he thinks they won't find it, no DNA of hers anywhere near his trailor or garage etc the list just goes on and on of how things were tampered to frame him and at the end of the day one of the jurors said they was basically threatened to find him guilty as they feared for their own safety.
Great watch but absolutely scandalous goings on behind closed doors with the law enforcement.
For what it's worth I believe that Bobby Dassey and the step dad were just trying to firstly exlclude themselves and also making Steve Avery solely responsible so that Brendan would be released. As for all those involved in the framing I hope they get what's coming to them in the end, can't see it though.
For no reason at all they decided to find him guilty of raping that woman and he lost 18 years of his life and simply because he was seeking the money for the loss of those 18 years (the money was a complete joke by the way it should have been multi millions of dollars) they decided to frame him because they now has a vendetta against him.
People always ask who has a motive towards the person they have murdered? Well in my opinion it's more a question of who has a motive against each other... Steve Avery against the police/sheriff department or the police/sheriff department against Steve Avery? Does that really need to be answered, the police hated him for making them look like fools. Whereas Steve just got on with the case for his money and went about his daily life to be honest he seemed very calm considering he lost 18 years of his life because someone didn't like him
For what it's worth something never sat right with me with her brother, the ex and the roommate. It's the way the ex was adamant that she and the roommate had never had sex and was just friends, He looks like a jealous ex who couldn't let go of her then found out they was sleeping together, he then followed her waiting for her to leave Averys then killing her brutally not far from Averys yard then fleeing, then the rest is history.
The police find the remains near Averys yard leaving them believing no matter what he did it, they then shutoff any access to the area then let the framing commence, fucking hell it was the biggest framing I've ever read about or watched, like he's going to leave her teeth and bones next to his house and prop a couple of twigs up over the car as if he thinks they won't find it, no DNA of hers anywhere near his trailor or garage etc the list just goes on and on of how things were tampered to frame him and at the end of the day one of the jurors said they was basically threatened to find him guilty as they feared for their own safety.
Great watch but absolutely scandalous goings on behind closed doors with the law enforcement.
For what it's worth I believe that Bobby Dassey and the step dad were just trying to firstly exlclude themselves and also making Steve Avery solely responsible so that Brendan would be released. As for all those involved in the framing I hope they get what's coming to them in the end, can't see it though.
AntonDonJuan
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- 2 Jun 2007
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One of the best documentaries I've ever seen.
Rather than echo what everyone says already in the thread about the police being complete bent cunts, I will add that I don't believe he did it at all.
Nobody in their right mind would do 18 years in prison for something they didn't do, then go and kill a random (she pretty much was) woman a few months later knowing you would go back to prison. He might be dim as fuck, but nobody is that dim.
Complete stitch up from start to finish.
I reckon her brother and ex bf had something to do with it, pair of shifty cunts those 2
Rather than echo what everyone says already in the thread about the police being complete bent cunts, I will add that I don't believe he did it at all.
Nobody in their right mind would do 18 years in prison for something they didn't do, then go and kill a random (she pretty much was) woman a few months later knowing you would go back to prison. He might be dim as fuck, but nobody is that dim.
Complete stitch up from start to finish.
I reckon her brother and ex bf had something to do with it, pair of shifty cunts those 2
TCIB
Well-Known Member
They gave no real answer. I read up on this and they basically glossed over that part.
Why would a man butcher a woman, clean the house better than a forensic crew could do move the bloody corpse into the car outside, take it out and then put it on the fire.
It makes no sense at all, he may have changed his mind on the disposal but if he can clean a house that well why would he leave obvious blood from her and him in the car.
Yeah her brother was dodgy as fuck, you also see fresh scratches on his hands and the ex in the show. They may have been fighting the same cat possibly, you never know.
I will say Steven Avery was an undesirable in the sense he had a fair few whispers around of him messing with younger members of his family.
He had a gun when he ran his cousin off the road, no need when it is a woman, so he was no model citizen.
I feel the police went so far over the line here though, they abused their position in the worst way possible almost.
The ultimate you could argue is to simply kill him or is this worse ?
What gets me is that twat Kourcek, Lenk and the one with the bins will never even have to see a day of jail for their actions.
That Lenk looks like a real bastard, a mean **** who almost had a face of contempt when he was being deposed.
Why would a man butcher a woman, clean the house better than a forensic crew could do move the bloody corpse into the car outside, take it out and then put it on the fire.
It makes no sense at all, he may have changed his mind on the disposal but if he can clean a house that well why would he leave obvious blood from her and him in the car.
Yeah her brother was dodgy as fuck, you also see fresh scratches on his hands and the ex in the show. They may have been fighting the same cat possibly, you never know.
I will say Steven Avery was an undesirable in the sense he had a fair few whispers around of him messing with younger members of his family.
He had a gun when he ran his cousin off the road, no need when it is a woman, so he was no model citizen.
I feel the police went so far over the line here though, they abused their position in the worst way possible almost.
The ultimate you could argue is to simply kill him or is this worse ?
What gets me is that twat Kourcek, Lenk and the one with the bins will never even have to see a day of jail for their actions.
That Lenk looks like a real bastard, a mean **** who almost had a face of contempt when he was being deposed.
One thing that hit me was how the ex had a smirk when asked by the defense about his whereabouts on the day of the disappearance and the fact that he wasn't questioned as a suspect by the police.
I'm not sure about the brother because a brother could be obsessed by vengeance and take the role as the family spokesperson. He was your typical straight laced middle-class American in my mind. But the ex to me looked like he knew he could get away with anything he wanted to get away with. I suspect it'll be when he is caught doing something similar that it'll lead to a new case.
I'm not sure about the brother because a brother could be obsessed by vengeance and take the role as the family spokesperson. He was your typical straight laced middle-class American in my mind. But the ex to me looked like he knew he could get away with anything he wanted to get away with. I suspect it'll be when he is caught doing something similar that it'll lead to a new case.
nephew 100% innocent
Avery 95% innocent... always a chance he could have done it thinking he was invincible from the previous miscarriage of justice
who did??
If it was the police Lenk would be the most obvious don't see Colburn having the balls.
the ex......possible but I don't see him being able to plant the evidence at Avery's
one of Avery family members...........member had a grudge against him/thought they could get their hand on his payout with him in jail
co worker- she was getting phone calls off someone......they said she was terrified of going to Avery's......they knew where she would be and knew it was a perfect opportunity
police look most likely to me as I don't see the others being able to plant evidence unless someone else killed her and the police planted the evidence
Avery 95% innocent... always a chance he could have done it thinking he was invincible from the previous miscarriage of justice
who did??
If it was the police Lenk would be the most obvious don't see Colburn having the balls.
the ex......possible but I don't see him being able to plant the evidence at Avery's
one of Avery family members...........member had a grudge against him/thought they could get their hand on his payout with him in jail
co worker- she was getting phone calls off someone......they said she was terrified of going to Avery's......they knew where she would be and knew it was a perfect opportunity
police look most likely to me as I don't see the others being able to plant evidence unless someone else killed her and the police planted the evidence
SiMCFC
Well-Known Member
I think her brother, ex boyfriend and the police are all guilty as sin!
the only way I can see it being someone else other then the police killing her is if she was found shot dead near the Avery property and not found by a member of the public but by the police.......they burnt her elsewhere and proceeded to plant evidence.