EU referendum deal (title edited)

[Moriati]

Extract from 'The Slog'
https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/0...itain-to-destroy-eu-fascism-read-why-we-wont/

'The ‘deal’ already agreed in outline between David Cameron, Angela Merkel, Jean-Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and others to “keep” Britain in the European Union is rapidly turning, on the EU Commission circuit, into one of the worst-kept secrets of all time. For me, it is one of the great scandals of the moment that not one of the UK mainstream media titles or broadcasters have picked it up. Scandal or not, however, the reason why they’re turning a blind eye to it is not hard to see'.
........
The Stay Campaign is going to carry the day in June – or whenever it is when we’ll be asked to go through the pointless ritual of having a referendum. They’re going to win because most business and politically ‘liberal’ people want it, because other people are scared about the world economy, because the media (with money from Brussels) will pile on the fear-mongering, because young people lack the discernment to spot what a tartan paint salesman Cameron is, because narrow education has left them ignorant of how bondage happens, and above all because if necessary the entire event will be stage-managed to produce The Right Answer.

Sadly, it’s become another of those Etonian level playing fields upon which it’s all going well until the last two minutes, at which point the winners score three offside goals and they all count. As it was with the hacking saga, the Brooks verdict, the Leveson enquiry, the Elm House investigation, the delayed Chilcot Report and the second Coulson trial, so shall it also come to pass that, come what may, the Stay camp will win.

As the cliché has it, they will – literally – do Whatever it Takes to win.

 

[mat]

Extract from 'The Slog'
https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/0...itain-to-destroy-eu-fascism-read-why-we-wont/

'The ‘deal’ already agreed in outline between David Cameron, Angela Merkel, Jean-Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and others to “keep” Britain in the European Union is rapidly turning, on the EU Commission circuit, into one of the worst-kept secrets of all time. For me, it is one of the great scandals of the moment that not one of the UK mainstream media titles or broadcasters have picked it up. Scandal or not, however, the reason why they’re turning a blind eye to it is not hard to see'.
........
The Stay Campaign is going to carry the day in June – or whenever it is when we’ll be asked to go through the pointless ritual of having a referendum. They’re going to win because most business and politically ‘liberal’ people want it, because other people are scared about the world economy, because the media (with money from Brussels) will pile on the fear-mongering, because young people lack the discernment to spot what a tartan paint salesman Cameron is, because narrow education has left them ignorant of how bondage happens, and above all because if necessary the entire event will be stage-managed to produce The Right Answer.

Sadly, it’s become another of those Etonian level playing fields upon which it’s all going well until the last two minutes, at which point the winners score three offside goals and they all count. As it was with the hacking saga, the Brooks verdict, the Leveson enquiry, the Elm House investigation, the delayed Chilcot Report and the second Coulson trial, so shall it also come to pass that, come what may, the Stay camp will win.

As the cliché has it, they will – literally – do Whatever it Takes to win.

Just Scotland on a bigger scale then....

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Extract from 'The Slog'
https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/0...itain-to-destroy-eu-fascism-read-why-we-wont/

'The ‘deal’ already agreed in outline between David Cameron, Angela Merkel, Jean-Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and others to “keep” Britain in the European Union is rapidly turning, on the EU Commission circuit, into one of the worst-kept secrets of all time. For me, it is one of the great scandals of the moment that not one of the UK mainstream media titles or broadcasters have picked it up. Scandal or not, however, the reason why they’re turning a blind eye to it is not hard to see'.
........
The Stay Campaign is going to carry the day in June – or whenever it is when we’ll be asked to go through the pointless ritual of having a referendum. They’re going to win because most business and politically ‘liberal’ people want it, because other people are scared about the world economy, because the media (with money from Brussels) will pile on the fear-mongering, because young people lack the discernment to spot what a tartan paint salesman Cameron is, because narrow education has left them ignorant of how bondage happens, and above all because if necessary the entire event will be stage-managed to produce The Right Answer.

Sadly, it’s become another of those Etonian level playing fields upon which it’s all going well until the last two minutes, at which point the winners score three offside goals and they all count. As it was with the hacking saga, the Brooks verdict, the Leveson enquiry, the Elm House investigation, the delayed Chilcot Report and the second Coulson trial, so shall it also come to pass that, come what may, the Stay camp will win.

As the cliché has it, they will – literally – do Whatever it Takes to win.

Bloody hell
I hope so.

 

[mat]

Looks like Dave has fucked it up again!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35479506

The interviewer is a paid up Tory member is giving him some shit and he just doesn't answer.

 

[cibaman]

The worst thing about the "re-negotiation" is that it gives the Eurosceptics a ton of ammunition to keep the debate going for decades if there's a "Stay" vote. Its just so vague that they'll be able to argue that the EU has failed to deliver, that the electorate were misled etc.

 

[MCFC1993]

Not worth the paper its written on, I don't get how this deal is meant to win over the people who want to leave.

 

[Damocles]

David Cameron said on the Andrew Marr show today that he would stay on as Prime Minister, even if the result of the vote is to leave the EU. The PM would stay on even if he's on the losing side in the biggest constitutional issue in recent history. That is insane.

Not sure why. We live in a democracy, and he would have honoured that by giving people a choice.

"Winning" side or not he has done the job required of him.

 

[CityStu]

Not sure why. We live in a democracy, and he would have honoured that by giving people a choice.

"Winning" side or not he has done the job required of him.

Agreed. Think it'll have more of an impact on who succeeds him as leader. Osbourne's in the in camp, May was previously swaying towards out but was positive about the deal yesterday and Boris was previously swaying in but was sceptical of the deal.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

After joining what was presumed to be a group of western European nations easing economic structures within
their systems, to facilitate trade, we have just witnessed a British prime minister whoring himself around Europe, begging the leaders of
poor ex communist countries, to be allowed to be able to control his own country's welfare system.
He has also been told that his government has no say who is allowed to live in his country, if they're in this club, and that citizens of their
countries have every right to expect his citizens to support them financially.
It will be an interesting referendum, for sure.

 

[BlueHammer85]

We'll stay in the EU

All the build up, negotiations and people demanding we leave i find rather pointless.

Leaders around Europe and big businesses will ensure we stay

 

[I Hart Man City]

Not sure why. We live in a democracy, and he would have honoured that by giving people a choice.

"Winning" side or not he has done the job required of him.

Fair enough but I just don't think a Prime Minister could lose on such a big constitutional issue and not have his position become untenable.

 

[mat]

The worst thing about the "re-negotiation" is that it gives the Eurosceptics a ton of ammunition to keep the debate going for decades if there's a "Stay" vote. Its just so vague that they'll be able to argue that the EU has failed to deliver, that the electorate were misled etc.

Scottish vote all over again.

 

[wahablue]

As an old miserable get who voted "Yes" to the Common Market,I will vote "Out" in the up coming referendum.I never had a vote to say that European laws would userp our own parliament,that control of our borders would be dictated by Europe,no vote on this what so ever.And I also think that the governments, from Ted Heath onwards were traitors to our population, for this underhanded capitulation to nameless unelected politicians who have their own countries Agenda.The make-up of the UK has changed and in 20/30 years time Enoch Powell's words will ring true.God help our children/grand children.The country is full,Schools,hospitals,transport at breaking point,yet every time Cameron opens his mouth their is money to be given to people abroad.The MPs who are now changing their long held opinions on Europe are only thinking of themselves and what they will gain,not what their constituants demand.Rant over.

 

[yerwot?]

As a previously fully committed europhile, the list of "stay" sayers make me think i am backing the wrong horse.
In a nutshell, if the torys are for something then it is bad for me, if they are against something( democracy, trade unions, the NHS etc) then it is good for me. Dilemma

 

[CityStu]

I'd like the people governing my country to be accountable and will therefore be voting out.

I haven't actually seen any good arguments for staying in - just scare mongering about what 'could' happen on the economic side.

 

[Moriati]

Of course we will stay in. The US wants, needs, and insists our continued participation. This campaign won’t be marked by a real negotiation between the UK and the EU, that’s already a given. Goldman Sachs has infiltrated the highest echelons of the Cabinet Office and is driving the pro-EU camp to maintain the GS hegemony in the financial power houses of the EU.

The European Union was set up to favour big business, so anything that happens to Britain will have no effect on the private corporations who make use of Britain’s poor regulatory systems – whilst still being able to exploit countries who benefit from having tight regulations and therefore better economies.

In or out, Britain will still be the screwdriver economy it is today, assembling cars and other equipment much as Romania does.

As to bureaucracies, whilst overstaffed in Holland and Germany, they do at least work. The entire point of having the EU bureaucracy in Brussels was that whilst it works – that is to say, the papers get pushed – it’s easy enough for certain ‘hands’ to guide the decisions as to what that paper does.

Brexit is a ‘done deal’ by this bunch of over powerful and dogmatic elites.

There is a lot of anger and resentment building to what amounts to national betrayal at many levels.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

Of course we will stay in. The US wants, needs, and insists our continued participation. This campaign won’t be marked by a real negotiation between the UK and the EU, that’s already a given. Goldman Sachs has infiltrated the highest echelons of the Cabinet Office and is driving the pro-EU camp to maintain the GS hegemony in the financial power houses of the EU.

The European Union was set up to favour big business, so anything that happens to Britain will have no effect on the private corporations who make use of Britain’s poor regulatory systems – whilst still being able to exploit countries who benefit from having tight regulations and therefore better economies.

In or out, Britain will still be the screwdriver economy it is today, assembling cars and other equipment much as Romania does.

As to bureaucracies, whilst overstaffed in Holland and Germany, they do at least work. The entire point of having the EU bureaucracy in Brussels was that whilst it works – that is to say, the papers get pushed – it’s easy enough for certain ‘hands’ to guide the decisions as to what that paper does.

Brexit is a ‘done deal’ by this bunch of over powerful and dogmatic elites.

There is a lot of anger and resentment building to what amounts to national betrayal at many levels.

A screwdriver economy like Romania!

Utter nonsense.

 

[Len Rum]

Not sure why. We live in a democracy, and he would have honoured that by giving people a choice.

"Winning" side or not he has done the job required of him.

"he has done the job required of him" ???
Are you seriously suggesting he has got a good deal out of these negotiations?
The 'concessions' he has won are virtually meaningless.
Take migration, the most important issue. The proposed four year benefit ban only comes into force when the so called 'emergency brake' kicks in and that has to be agreed by all other EU members and they can decide when it is removed, oh and it's a graduated ban, oh and child benefits will be paid at the level of claimants country, oh and it doesn't matter a fig anyway because even the full on proposal won't stop migrants coming here.
If he had anything about him he should say (as promised) that this deal does not represent a significant improvement in Britain's EU membership and so I'm recommending a leave vote.
But it was never about that was it? The referendum was simply to see off UKIP and the right wing of his own party and to gain an electoral advantage over Labour prior to the general election.
In other words a pro EU PM who is prepared to risk Britain leaving the EU for purely political advantage.

 

[CityStu]

"he has done the job required of him" ???
Are you seriously suggesting he has got a good deal out of these negotiations?
The 'concessions' he has won are virtually meaningless.
Take migration, the most important issue. The proposed four year benefit ban only comes into force when the so called 'emergency brake' kicks in and that has to be agreed by all other EU members and they can decide when it is removed, oh and it's a graduated ban, oh and child benefits will be paid at the level of claimants country, oh and it doesn't matter a fig anyway because even the full on proposal won't stop migrants coming here.
If he had anything about him he should say (as promised) that this deal does not represent a significant improvement in Britain's EU membership and so I'm recommending a leave vote.
But it was never about that was it? The referendum was simply to see off UKIP and the right wing of his own party and to gain an electoral advantage over Labour prior to the general election.
In other words a pro EU PM who is prepared to risk Britain leaving the EU for purely political advantage.

You can be both pro EU and pro referendum. In fact both the Tories and Greens suggested that in their manifestos. Labour and the Libs fell down because they preached to the electorate - "we know what's best for you so don't worry yourselves about it". The electorate either didn't believe them or got pissed off.

 

[purplenose]

All you really have to do is take a look at what is happening in Europe regardless of what they say it grows ever closer to being virtually one state. A bigger version of Yugoslavia as was, or the Soviet Union for a larger example. Take a look and see what became of them, do you want your country to be part of that with every chance that it will end in the same way? The whole thing will simply not work and is already showing signs of disintegrating.

The fact is that by staying in we are going to open the gates of hell, vote out and there is a risk of course but whatever the consequences of voting out maybe there will be some chance of dealing with those consequences. It beggars belief that anyone would vote to stay in on the back of what the likes of the Cameron will peddle, truly scary.