EU referendum

[KenTheLandlord]

What on earth are you blabbering about? Gardens? Products? ITK?

Plain english please, no analogies.

It is plain English and you understand it perfectly.
So you come to a debate and then say you wont answer.
Good one.

 

[Metal Biker]

It is plain English and you understand it perfectly.
So you come to a debate and then say you wont answer.
Good one.

Because we'll end up debating the analogy, one which does not correlate with the status of the UK leaving the EU. It is an overly simplied argument and the subject matter itself is much more involved. I've 'come to a debate' to give my opinion on how I perceive the EU, giving examples of what led me to form such an opinion. Examples which others can check, research and form their own conclusions in which they'll either agree, disagree or have an entirely different viewpoint to my own based on the exact same information. There has been a lot of misinformation on both sides of the debate and i've been giving opposing viewpoints to them based on what i've learned.

You have come to the debate to tell others their opinions are misguided but without explaining to them why or giving a clear stance what your viewpoint would be if you had to choose on an opposing side. For example you still have not explained, in the event of an exit from the ones you listed and asked me to choose from, what scenario would be most beneficial for Britain. If you don't know, just say so.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Because we'll end up debating the analogy, one which does not correlate with the status of the UK leaving the EU. It is an overly simplied argument and the subject matter itself is much more involved. I've 'come to a debate' to give my opinion on how I perceive the EU, giving examples of what led me to form such an opinion. Examples which others can check, research and form their own conclusions in which they'll either agree, disagree or have an entirely different viewpoint to my own based on the exact same information.

You have come to the debate to tell others their opinions are misguided but without explaining to them why or giving a clear stance what your viewpoint would be if you had to choose on an opposing side. For example you still have not explained, in the event of an exit from the ones you listed and asked me to choose from, what scenario would be most beneficial for Britain. If you don't know, just say so.

You said you wont answer, that is not giving your opinion.
Why would i give an opinion on an opposing side, you haven't on why we should.

I dont want any of them, i am happy to remain in.
I am happy to remain in because the out options are all worse than what we already have and there is no clear path by outers as to where we would go.
You are the one wanting out and i gave you the opportunity to explain which path you felt would be better.
You wouldn't because the whole out scenario is built on the fact it is not the EU. Past that there is nothing.
It is, well lets just get out first then decide.

 

[Metal Biker]

You said you wont answer, that is not giving your opinion.
Why would i give an opinion on an opposing side, you haven't on why we should.

I dont want any of them, i am happy to remain in.
I am happy to remain in because the out options are all worse than what we already have and there is no clear path by outers as to where we would go.
You are the one wanting out and i gave you the opportunity to explain which path you felt would be better.
You wouldn't because the whole out scenario is built on the fact it is not the EU. Past that there is nothing.
It is, well lets just get out first then decide.

Right; so as I pointed out earlier, there is no point in giving you my answer, because you don't agree with any of the options provided therefore any answer I'd give you'd find fault with, and that isn't a reasoned debate, it's you telling someone else their view is incorrect. Finally we get there!

Even if you don't agree with any of the options, there must be at least one which is the most feasible. You don't see there being one, whereas i'm more open to any and every alternative. I was open to a reformed EU, I am a former 'inner' whose views on the importance of the EU has changed. This hasn't happened overnight. I once supported being in the EU, now I cannot find enough of a convincing argument as to why we should remain.

 

[blueonblue]

I am happy to remain in because the out options are all worse than what we already have and there is no clear path by outers as to where we would go.

You seem like a capable chap so how do you equate an in vote to the one true fact without any input from either side.
You can not continue to "Have what we already have", the EU has stated time and again the aim is FULL integration into a federal Europe & the Euro.

The Dutch have just as good as told the EU to f*ck itself, Hungary & Austria have ignored Brussels and closed their borders, Poland is refusing point blank to play pass the parcel with migrants, while in spite of tipping over Six billion euros and a deal to allow membership to Turkey (Allowing 77 million Turks free movement) the master plan to deport migrants has hit the stops, add in calls from the French and German public for their own referendum an the "What we have now" is highly unlikely to be there.

Yes there are many questions to be decided over what direction things go after exit, but at least WE will be making them.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Just under £10Million of taxpayer money being spent on government propaganda being sent out to us asking us to vote to stay in.

Thought we where skint? Why is that money not being spent on services?

That said, not a bad day to try and deflect from the growing anger with our PM and the rest over their offshore trust funds is it by throwing this news out?

That's the equivalent of you dropping a halfpenny in a drain

 

[CityStu]

If i vote out, want to know exactly what is coming next.

If we stay in, can you tell me exactly what is coming next? On the current trajectory it looks like the EU will branch into Turkey and push on into the Middle East and the UK will cease to become a nation, to exist as a state within an all-encompassing EU country.

Can you alleviate the above concerns or tell me why they are preferable to being an independent UK, outside the EU.

 

[CityStu]

That's the equivalent of you dropping a halfpenny in a drain

It's taxpayer money supporting a side. Most people did want more information about how much the EU costs and quantitatively what the benefits were - which would have allowed for balanced debate about whether to leave. Instead the government had used those funds for its own purpose to deliver propaganda to every house in the country.

It might be the equivalent of a halfpenny down the drain, but it is a halfpenny the Out campaign cannot drop.

 

[EalingBlue2]

It's taxpayer money supporting a side. Most people did want more information about how much the EU costs and quantitatively what the benefits were - which would have allowed for balanced debate about whether to leave. Instead the government had used those funds for its own purpose to deliver propaganda to every house in the country.

It might be the equivalent of a halfpenny down the drain, but it is a halfpenny the Out campaign cannot drop.

They've got the hedge funds, off shore tax dodging media owners and Kremlin behind them what else do they need?

 

[Blue Smarties]

I can't wait until we're finally out of this sham. Not long left now chaps.

 

[cibaman]

Er would that be like they have with every other country in the world ?, I dont see any free movement going to the USA or Japan, or hear that the yanks are paying some kind of membership fee to flog pepsi.
ANY exporter will have to meet the quality/ safety standards of the country it exports to, ours are equal or superior as a matter of course.

The EU will still be welcome to buy and sell with us, only a fool thinks they want a trade war of imposed tariffs because we would win it hands down.

Someone should tell the Norwegians. They keep paying in when they don't need to!

Interesting article in The Times today from Oxford Economics. They've modeled 9 different scenarios and concluded that it is possible for Brexit to have no adverse financial consequences. But only if we retain strong links with the EU, including retaining free movement of labour, whilst also negotiating free trade agreements with the non EU countries. They also reckon the tariff war scenario would lead to a reduction in UK GDP of 4% by 2030. The GDP reduction for the EU in this scenario would be 0.2%. Not exactly winning hands down.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I see the RMT, a pretty large union, is urging it's members to vote out, as within the EU there would never be any prospect
of any renationalisation, only extended privatisation, if what I've briefly seen is correct.
If true, an example of the left being as anxious as the right about membership, which makes this referendum very fascinating.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I can't wait until we're finally out of this sham. Not long left now chaps.

Your going to be dissapointed.

 

[hgblue]

Your going to be dissapointed.

And I'll give it 12 months before the majority of Inners realise what an enormous mistake they've just made....

 

[BlueHammer85]

And I'll give it 12 months before the majority of Inners realise what an enormous mistake they've just made....

Not really. Life won't change either way.

 

[hgblue]

Not really. Life won't change either way.

Course not. The EU are playing nice at the moment, but they know a vote to remain means the UK has to take everything that gets thrown at it and stop moaning, because the people have spoken.

 

[Metal Biker]

They've got the hedge funds, off shore tax dodging media owners and Kremlin behind them what else do they need?

Taxpayers money being used to support their cause since many taxpayers in this country hold an opposing view to the one the government has.
The government does not get to dictate to us how we should vote, and if it is using funds taken from te taxpayer it needs to release the same amount for the opposing arguement.

The government can hold whatever stance they wish, but it has to be a level playing field. Again it is odd that you'd support the government on this issue when for the past few years you've had nothing but contempt for the actions of this government and accused them of spreading lies...except about this, on this they're being truthful!

 

[Credo]

£9 million of tax payers money spent on a 14 page document to stay in. Almost makes up your mind to vote to get out.

 

[bobmcfc]

£9 million of tax payers money spent on a 14 page document to stay in. Almost makes up your mind to vote to get out.

Makes ones Piss fizz doesn't it ?

Could have used some of that cash to fix all the damn potholes on our roads.

 

[hgblue]

Makes ones Piss fizz doesn't it ?

Could have used some of that cash to fix all the damn potholes on our roads.

My hope is that this stunt will backfire because it plays very badly with the British sense of fair play. How many are gong to read it? How many will change their mind if they do? How many will be disgusted that the government is releasing pro EU propaganda and getting the taxpayer to pay for it?