EU referendum

[blueinsa]

That's the equivalent of you dropping a halfpenny in a drain

If its such an insignificant amount, why has this government insisted on taking sums far less away from much needed services?

Ridiculous comment but im not surprised.

 

[BigJoe#1]

My hope is that this stunt will backfire because it plays very badly with the British sense of fair play. How many are gong to read it? How many will change their mind if they do? How many will be disgusted that the government is releasing pro EU propaganda and getting the taxpayer to pay for it?

I know I find it repulsive..... then again, on reflection, what more could we honestly expect from a spoilt government that gets its own way either by bullying or stealth?

Absolutely disgraceful undemocratic behaviour. What would this lot say if it was the Syrian government producing such literature to support its cause?

 

[cibaman]

It's a good job that the members of the Leave campaign won't be negotiating with the EU, post exit, and if the European Commission wishes to be petty about mudslinging in a referendum campaign, i'd rather not deal with them, to be fair. Our government works for us and will, regardless of the result, negotiate the best deal possible. I'd like to think both sides can be mature and realstic about the connotations of either result.

The EU will react to losing the referendum the same way they always do. The'll try to engineer a 2nd referendum. Acting maturely wouldn't come into it.

Who do you think will be negotiating with the EU if the vote is to leave? I just can't see Cameron surviving losing the referendum.

 

[blueonblue]

Interesting article in The Times today from Oxford Economics.

Interesting because yet again a Goldman Sachs connection, seriously people you need to look at who is pulling the strings and realize that if this bunch are for anything its bad for you.

When the Government spend tax payers money to bolster up the in campaign it begs the question who is "The government" because many of the Tory MPs including in the cabinet are for exit, again the most prominent inners in our government have connections to good old G&S.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

£9 million of tax payers money spent on a 14 page document to stay in. Almost makes up your mind to vote to get out.

I heard a government spokesman say today that an equal amount will be offered to the leave camp, and, if true, this would
mean a leaflet countering the remain stance could be issued. This would give the Leave camp a slight advantage IMO, as they'd be getting the 'last say'
as it were.

 

[blueinsa]

I heard a government spokesman say today that an equal amount will be offered to the leave camp, and, if true, this would
mean a leaflet countering the remain stance could be issued. This would give the Leave camp a slight advantage IMO, as they'd be getting the 'last say'
as it were.

Fuck me so that is nearly £20 Million being wasted now!

Do any of them have no shame?

 

[grunge]

This thread shows how little actual information there is available, the vast ranges of responses ( from corresponding sides of the argument ) that are directly contradicting each other.

 

[grunge]

Fuck me so that is nearly £20 Million being wasted now!

Do any of them have no shame?

This is the way referendums work, equal spending on both sides to make sure no one side is more represented than the other and so that people are educated on both sides.

 

[EalingBlue2]

If its such an insignificant amount, why has this government insisted on taking sums far less away from much needed services?

Ridiculous comment but im not surprised.

That is a very good question - I don't understand some of the awful penny pinching by the government from the vulnerable. The money is irellevant if the leaflets are overtly politics and unfair though that would be wrong whichever side it was for and how much it cost

 

[blueinsa]

This is the way referendums work, equal spending on both sides to make sure no one side is more represented than the other and so that people are educated on both sides.

Its still tax payers money the country can so ill afford if you listen to the politicians every second minute and for what? A leaflet telling us the EU is fantastic and a leaflet telling us its shit.

Criminal waste of money, criminal.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Taxpayers money being used to support their cause since many taxpayers in this country hold an opposing view to the one the government has.
The government does not get to dictate to us how we should vote, and if it is using funds taken from te taxpayer it needs to release the same amount for the opposing arguement.

The government can hold whatever stance they wish, but it has to be a level playing field. Again it is odd that you'd support the government on this issue when for the past few years you've had nothing but contempt for the actions of this government and accused them of spreading lies...except about this, on this they're being truthful!

To be fair at least the out campaigns money will be coming from a foreign power and wealthy off shore benefactors so isn't using any of our own

 

[Metal Biker]

The EU will react to losing the referendum the same way they always do. The'll try to engineer a 2nd referendum. Acting maturely wouldn't come into it.

Who do you think will be negotiating with the EU if the vote is to leave? I just can't see Cameron surviving losing the referendum.

Cameron's the last person i'd want negotiating for us, if i'm honest. But again all these "who/what do you think" type questions are pointless because the simple answer, both for and against an exit, is that I do not know. I cannot predict what will happen, but just because I or others cannot predict what might happen either beneficially or negatively doesn't mean we should fear remaining in a political union solely on that basis. Things could be great if we stay/go, or things could deteriorate if we stay/go. Truth is nobody knows for sure what will develop , but fear of the 'unknown' should not be a factor in influencing anyone's decision. If we based our choices on that we'd never progress in any aspect of our lives.

The Stronger in Europe campaign likes to claim it can predict the unknown of an exit; it cannot. It can only speculate a worst case scenario which it uses as its argument to remain. The same for the Leave campaign, claiming a doom a gloom outlook in which British sovereignty could be surrendered and the British identity evaporates. Its all speculative. I prefer to look at how the EU behaves NOW, its handling of the debt crisis, Ukraine crisis, refugee and migrant crisis and their subsequent failures and its proposals for the immediate future, and they do not chime with what I want Europe to be nor do I trust those in charge, who are people i've had no say in appointing and neither has anyone else.

Back in the 70's people were told that the EEC/EU would not benefit them, or their children, but it WOULD benefit their children's children. Well i'm in that bracket and I don't see any benefits to Britain remaining in the EU. Which begs the question; who has benefitted from the EU?

 

[grunge]

Its still tax payers money the country can so ill afford if you listen to the politicians every second minute and for what? A leaflet telling us the EU is fantastic and a leaflet telling us its shit.

Criminal waste of money, criminal.

Im not saying the money couldn't be better spent elsewhere, but when they called the referendum this spend was inevitable. you cant have a referendum without the government paying to try to educate the masses about both sides of the argument.

I think the rule is if the goverment spent a million one expressing there view they have to give the equal amount to the other side.

Im not sure if its a UK rule, EU Rule or some other global rule, but its to prevent a total white wash of info by 1 side.

 

[EalingBlue2]

I would be far more comfortable if private donations above a negligible amount were banned and corporate donations were banned. Public funds could be the only form of campaign finance and newspapers who are overtly political could be compelled to allow space for right of reply. The UK is ok. But the state of American politics with people like the Koch brothers able to put 500m into an election and buy congressmen is just wrong. Too much money, too much self interest. Mind you I wouldn't allow MPs to have second jobs or earn outside MP salary

 

[urmston]

Leaflets from the government and constant scaremongering from the Guardian and TTIP supporting big business.

What more reasons can anyone need to vote Leave?

 

[grunge]

Leaflets from the government and constant scaremongering from the Guardian and TTIP supporting big business.

What more reasons can anyone need to vote Leave?

I'd say them and the Daily Mail cancel each other out on that front.

 

[CityStu]

I heard a government spokesman say today that an equal amount will be offered to the leave camp, and, if true, this would
mean a leaflet countering the remain stance could be issued. This would give the Leave camp a slight advantage IMO, as they'd be getting the 'last say'
as it were.

Out and Remain will each get a £7m budget to campaign their cause. This £9m drop is in addition to that and was supposed to be an informative leaflet of facts, not In propaganda.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Cameron's the last person i'd want negotiating for us, if i'm honest. But again all these "who/what do you think" type questions are pointless because the simple answer, both for and against an exit, is that I do not know. I cannot predict what will happen, but just because I or others cannot predict what might happen either beneficially or negatively doesn't mean we should fear remaining in a political union solely on that basis. Things could be great if we stay/go, or things could deteriorate if we stay/go. Truth is nobody knows for sure what will develop , but fear of the 'unknown' should not be a factor in influencing anyone's decision. If we based our choices on that we'd never progress in any aspect of our lives.

The Stronger in Europe campaign likes to claim it can predict the unknown of an exit; it cannot. It can only speculate a worst case scenario which it uses as its argument to remain. The same for the Leave campaign, claiming a doom a gloom outlook in which British sovereignty could be surrendered and the British identity evaporates. Its all speculative. I prefer to look at how the EU behaves NOW, its handling of the debt crisis, Ukraine crisis, refugee and migrant crisis and their subsequent failures and its proposals for the immediate future, and they do not chime with what I want Europe to be nor do I trust those in charge, who are people i've had no say in appointing and neither has anyone else.

Back in the 70's people were told that the EEC/EU would not benefit them, or their children, but it WOULD benefit their children's children. Well i'm in that bracket and I don't see any benefits to Britain remaining in the EU. Which begs the question; who has benefitted from the EU?

After we had voted to enter what was then the common market, it quickly became a great source of irritation that the biggest recipients of EU
CAP funds, roughly half the budget then, were the French. It's probably still the same now, supporting thousands of inefficient smallholdings
which make up a lot of French agriculture, whilst British farms are generally larger and better managed. I think most farmers would vote leave.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Out and Remain will each get a £7m budget to campaign their cause. This £9m drop is in addition to that and was supposed to be an informative leaflet of facts, not In propaganda.

Is that right?
In that case that is fucking scandalous, and completely unfair.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Right; so as I pointed out earlier, there is no point in giving you my answer, because you don't agree with any of the options provided therefore any answer I'd give you'd find fault with, and that isn't a reasoned debate, it's you telling someone else their view is incorrect. Finally we get there!

Even if you don't agree with any of the options, there must be at least one which is the most feasible. You don't see there being one, whereas i'm more open to any and every alternative. I was open to a reformed EU, I am a former 'inner' whose views on the importance of the EU has changed. This hasn't happened overnight. I once supported being in the EU, now I cannot find enough of a convincing argument as to why we should remain.

Yes, that is the whole point of reasoned debate. Tell me what you think, you may have ideas i had not thought but you are not willing to say anything.
You are presuming something and getting it very wrong.
Yes of the available options one must be better than the others and that is what i am asking.
You are not being open at all, if you were you would say. You are telling me you are open to any and every alternative but are not willing to share that info.
Sad really.

You seem like a capable chap so how do you equate an in vote to the one true fact without any input from either side.
You can not continue to "Have what we already have", the EU has stated time and again the aim is FULL integration into a federal Europe & the Euro.

The Dutch have just as good as told the EU to f*ck itself, Hungary & Austria have ignored Brussels and closed their borders, Poland is refusing point blank to play pass the parcel with migrants, while in spite of tipping over Six billion euros and a deal to allow membership to Turkey (Allowing 77 million Turks free movement) the master plan to deport migrants has hit the stops, add in calls from the French and German public for their own referendum an the "What we have now" is highly unlikely to be there.

Yes there are many questions to be decided over what direction things go after exit, but at least WE will be making them.

We can make them now.
We rejected the euro, we have the right to veto what we don't like and do so.
We can argue our point for things we want and do so.
This all comes with the knowledge that we are in the largest trading bloc in the world and have a prominent role in it.
It could and should be more so but there is a reluctance to do so.
It baffles the Europeans as they generally look favourably towards the UK.

If we stay in, can you tell me exactly what is coming next? On the current trajectory it looks like the EU will branch into Turkey and push on into the Middle East and the UK will cease to become a nation, to exist as a state within an all-encompassing EU country.

Can you alleviate the above concerns or tell me why they are preferable to being an independent UK, outside the EU.

Turkey began their application in 1987 and on current trajectory it wont be anytime soon.
As to whether it will push onto the Middle East and the UK ceases to become a nation, i think that is you speculating.
They are not concerns unless you have some back up links i can read to see if they are serious claims.