EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
Status
Not open for further replies.
EalingBlue2 said:
This is the problem now, the leavers have become like the hippies of the late 60's, they live in a fantasist world where every road and every person leads us to a land of milk and honey and free love is abound.
Click to expand...

Not really.

It is the remain camp who are the hippies. They preach about 'feeling European' how wonderful it is that everyone in Europe now just gets along fine with lots of peace, love and understanding - no more wars like we used to have. They claim the EU has enabled us to live well and live in a land of milk and honey.

The reality is that the EU is a low growth, high unemployment bloc which is riven with disagreements between its members. Borders are going back up, and border fences too. It is becoming steadily less important in world terms with increasing austerity and poverty for many EU citizens. It lurches from crisis to crisis and has not delivered the security or prosperity it promised, and it is becoming more unaccountable, undemocratic and authoritarian.

And all the while, and against all the evidence, the pro-EU idealists and dreamers insist it is a good thing.
 
urmston said:
Not really.

It is the remain camp who are the hippies. They preach about 'feeling European' how wonderful it is that everyone in Europe now just gets along fine with lots of peace, love and understanding - no more wars like we used to have. They claim the EU has enabled us to live well and live in a land of milk and honey.

The reality is that the EU is a low growth, high unemployment bloc which is riven with disagreements between its members. Borders are going back up, and border fences too. It is becoming steadily less important in world terms with increasing austerity and poverty for many EU citizens. It lurches from crisis to crisis and has not delivered the security or prosperity it promised, and it is becoming more unaccountable, undemocratic and authoritarian.

And all the while, and against all the evidence, the pro-EU idealists and dreamers insist it is a good thing.
Click to expand...
All the things you mention about the EU are long term European issues, that started decades before the EU and will happen in or out as Europe has been in decline for a century.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
All the things you mention about the EU are long term European issues, that started decades before the EU and will happen in or out as Europe has been in decline for a century.
Click to expand...
The EU is directly responsible for the low growth and high unemployment in the Eurozone with it's insane and politically motivated decision to lock countries as diverse as Greece and Germany into a common currency. As for the EUs handling of the migrant crisis I really don't see how this can be defended. The economic downturn and migrant crisis are leading to the rise of the right across Europe, and far from being anti European, the leave side are a beacon of hope for freedom loving people across the continent.
 
As a point of note: Thanks to Bluemoon and this thread in particular, I decided the time had come. For the first time in my 55 years on this planet I decided to get actively involved in a political debate.

So I contacted the VoteLeave campaign and got a "Stall Pack" and set up a stall in Port Talbot which is relatively local to me. I was quite concerned about how this arguement would be received in South Wales which is a very unionised area and full of local Labour supporters. Bear in mind the majority of TU's and the Labour Party are backing the remain campaign.

I could not believe the response we had. I promise you there is no exaggeration here.

1. Over 85% of the people spoken to were all for leaving and they held very strong opinion.

2. A further 10% were genuinely undecided which included a couple of people who did not wish to disclose their views

3. Only 5% said I want to stay in.

There was nothing scientific about this survey, it was a normal Saturday morning in an everyday town centre, albeit a relatively poverty stricken place.

The feelings were strong and they meant it. Given that the people they believe in and follow faithfully (TU's and the Labour Party) I was amazed. I would have thought in these circumstances this would have been a town wher there was tough opinion on both sides.

I do wonder whether the Government has read the public mood on this correctly.

Still, it was one part (2 hours) of one day in one town.... and as the saying goes "one swallow does not make a summer"

Thought I'd share this to add to the debate....
 
So about 2 days ago and 4 pages ago there were two challenges issued to exit supporters by remain supporters to provide evidence to substantiate two points of view. The first was to prove that the UK would win a trade war against the EU 'hands down'. The second was to prove the EU immigration depressed wages or increased unemployment. Both it appears have fell on death ears...
 
jimbopm said:
So about 2 days ago and 4 pages ago there were two challenges issued to exit supporters by remain supporters to provide evidence to substantiate two points of view. The first was to prove that the UK would win a trade war against the EU 'hands down'. The second was to prove the EU immigration depressed wages or increased unemployment. Both it appears have fell on death ears...
Click to expand...
With all due respect, pretty daft questions, probably why they've been roundly ignored. This will always be about opinion. Could turn them on their head and say PROVE the UK wouldn't win a trade war against the EU hands down and prove that EU immigration hasn't depressed wages or increased unemployment. See what I mean? This wil always be about opinion and conjecture. That's why the questions have fallen on "death" ears...
 
BigJoe#1 said:
With all due respect, pretty daft questions, probably why they've been roundly ignored. This will always be about opinion. Could turn them on their head and say PROVE the UK wouldn't win a trade war against the EU hands down and prove that EU immigration hasn't depressed wages or increased unemployment. See what I mean? This wil always be about opinion and conjecture. That's why the questions have fallen on "death" ears...
Click to expand...

Well, to be honest, we would not need a trade war against the EU as we are in it, which is really the point.
Also the EU does not set the minimum wage nor apply wage freezes the UK government does, which again is another reason to not put our eggs in the London basket.
 
it's a miracle we survived before the EU came along

the EU is such a success story we must stay in obviously

plus all those eurocrats have their lovely final salary pensions to look forward to and it would be unfair to rob them of their lovely lifestyle considering all the valuable work that they do on our behalf debating alot about important stuff over lunch and all that

you can't have enough talking shops and bureaucrats at the end of the day even if we do have to pay more in tax so they can have a great life
 
Balti said:
it's a miracle we survived before the EU came along

the EU is such a success story we must stay in obviously

plus all those eurocrats have their lovely final salary pensions to look forward to and it would be unfair to rob them of their lovely lifestyle considering all the valuable work that they do on our behalf debating alot about important stuff over lunch and all that

you can't have enough talking shops and bureaucrats at the end of the day even if we do have to pay more in tax so they can have a great life
Click to expand...

You're right, the EU is a spectacular success story.
 
jimbopm said:
So about 2 days ago and 4 pages ago there were two challenges issued to exit supporters by remain supporters to provide evidence to substantiate two points of view. The first was to prove that the UK would win a trade war against the EU 'hands down'. The second was to prove the EU immigration depressed wages or increased unemployment. Both it appears have fell on death ears...
Click to expand...
You won't get it, it is almost identical to the Scottish independence vote, naiive, emotional, people hurting and looking for someone to blame. There is no plan for victory like the scots who thought England would take the debt and handover the Crown Jewels we think Europe will do the same.

It's what happens when anger and emotion cloud common sense and judgement. An out vote with a plan, with a negotiated path to go down would be rational and would be a sensible debate like Scottish nationalism could have been but Boris like Nicola will just play to base emotions peddle fantasies and hope there are enough naiive people to go along.

I wonder what Scotland would be thinking now had they voted out and I hope the whole of The UK doesn't get faced with that what the fuck have we done moment
 
BlueHammer85 said:
In. Let's make Europe work.

Fuck this insecular 'we rule the Waves' patriotic shite.
Click to expand...

Europe will only ever "work" for the French and the Germans we are never going to wield enough power or influence to make it work for us. over the last forty odd years we have had to opt out to get what is best for us and that is only going to get worse if we stupidly vote to stay in
 
It appears that we're bucking the trend on here with the 'out' vote, and quite substantially as well.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
You won't get it, it is almost identical to the Scottish independence vote, naiive, emotional, people hurting and looking for someone to blame. There is no plan for victory like the scots who thought England would take the debt and handover the Crown Jewels we think Europe will do the same.

It's what happens when anger and emotion cloud common sense and judgement. An out vote with a plan, with a negotiated path to go down would be rational and would be a sensible debate like Scottish nationalism could have been but Boris like Nicola will just play to base emotions peddle fantasies and hope there are enough naiive people to go along.

I wonder what Scotland would be thinking now had they voted out and I hope the whole of The UK doesn't get faced with that what the fuck have we done moment
Click to expand...

I am banned from the teachers thread for telling a ditty! Otherwise you would have had your response.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
As a point of note: Thanks to Bluemoon and this thread in particular, I decided the time had come. For the first time in my 55 years on this planet I decided to get actively involved in a political debate.

So I contacted the VoteLeave campaign and got a "Stall Pack" and set up a stall in Port Talbot which is relatively local to me. I was quite concerned about how this arguement would be received in South Wales which is a very unionised area and full of local Labour supporters. Bear in mind the majority of TU's and the Labour Party are backing the remain campaign.

I could not believe the response we had. I promise you there is no exaggeration here.

1. Over 85% of the people spoken to were all for leaving and they held very strong opinion.

2. A further 10% were genuinely undecided which included a couple of people who did not wish to disclose their views

3. Only 5% said I want to stay in.

There was nothing scientific about this survey, it was a normal Saturday morning in an everyday town centre, albeit a relatively poverty stricken place.

The feelings were strong and they meant it. Given that the people they believe in and follow faithfully (TU's and the Labour Party) I was amazed. I would have thought in these circumstances this would have been a town wher there was tough opinion on both sides.

I do wonder whether the Government has read the public mood on this correctly.

Still, it was one part (2 hours) of one day in one town.... and as the saying goes "one swallow does not make a summer"

Thought I'd share this to add to the debate....
Click to expand...
This seems to be the case with most people you ask. I'm certainly not going to infer that means there will be a definite out vote,
maybe the same sort are responding more vociferously than quiet inners,the general polls either show the in vote slightly ahead,
but a day or two later the opposite is true.
 
malg said:
It appears that we're bucking the trend on here with the 'out' vote, and quite substantially as well.
Click to expand...
Bluemoon has previous for this and bucking the trend doesn't necessarily make us wrong. We did that at the last election as well when the rwnj called it here for a tory win and just like this thread several vociferous posters just wouldn't have it and kept banging on about polls and the right wing being deluded etc. I think the polls are not really showing the growing resentment towards the EU and I actually think Cameron and the inners have badly misjudged the mood of the voters.
 
Cameron teaming up with that Welsh windbag Kinnock, (who has benefited from the EU to the tune of a goodly few quid,along with half
his family), together with Paddy Ashdown have been hitting the phones like trainees at a call centre, contacting the general public and attempting
to persuade us to stay.
Probably the biggest boost for Brexit yet, let us know if you get a call.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top