EU referendum

[west didsblue]

I see the Brexit nutters are now claiming that the BBC headlining a major treasury report is advertising.

Simply because it contradicts their stance.

Do you think that everyone supporting Brexit is a nutter?

 

[BigJoe#1]

Or the fact it states advertisment above the pictures.

Shhhh Don't let facts get in the way of a good [scare] story.... The Remainers don't!

 

[malg]

I've not read a word written about this referendum, as each side will just fucking lie. All I'm doing is reading this thread, and whichever posters annoy me more will determine my vote. At present I'm voting 'out'.

I can't think of a better way to decide how to vote in this silly referendum........

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

I see the Brexit nutters are now claiming that the BBC headlining a major treasury report is advertising.

Simply because it contradicts their stance.

It says advertisement above it you utter plonker.

 

[EalingBlue2]

The only reason the in vote wants you to stay is because they are all looking after themselves, when have they ever done anything for the benefit of the people in this country, yes the out vote is gonna bring lots of challenges but we survived before and we will do again.

This is touching - nasty evil Inners self interested. Then on the outlets side we have Nigel the Good Samaritan Farage, Rupert mother Theresa Murdoch, Lord Florence nightingale rothermere and Boris William wilberforce Johnson with their friends in the hedge funds whose sole aim in life is your happiness

 

[EalingBlue2]

I've not read a word written about this referendum, as each side will just fucking lie. All I'm doing is reading this thread, and whichever posters annoy me more will determine my vote. At present I'm voting 'out'.

I can't think of a better way to decide how to vote in this silly referendum........

you like Donald, Donald would vote out , that's the right call

 

[EalingBlue2]

If currency won't exist in the future then what will? Currency is just a store of value like the bitcoin if you don't have a form of currency to value 'goods and services' you can't operate and need to barter. The irony of your comments is that it is the very issue of currency and specifically the Euro which is the greatest danger to the EU and the UK by association - Cameron negotiated away any veto on future further integration and matters on the Eurozone for the nonsense that he claimed to have won - Ask yourself why the commission insisted on this trade off if it were not for further political and fiscal union knowing full well the UK would be a pain in the arse about it all.

You say it's no time for dramatic moves by retaining the status quo; but the status quo is just a snapshot of now and there are some posters who think that because the UK are not in the Eurozone they will be cocooned from the legislation that will be brought in to support this monumental shift to fiscal and political union - believing that we won't be dragged in much deeper is a statement of breath taking naivety! It's actually logistically impossible not to be pulled in deeper.

The risks are definitely there by staying in and doing nothing especially with the veto being pissed away for a packet of ready salted crisps.

Ok I will clarify our currencies as we know them today won't exist, digital trading tools with attributed value will, possibly multiple, possibly mono. But worrying about pound or euro will be history. As I said o suspect a d don't worry about some greater federalism as I suspect we will see far more devolution. What is needed is more power at a larger scale when needed bit combined with a lot more devolution of power to cities and regions. Then people could actually have more of a sovereignty and government and democracy could actually be closer.

London serves no one but London it has been true for a millennium and shame on anyone who actually believes Rupert , Boris , rothermere etc have their interests at heart

 

[BigJoe#1]

This is touching - nasty evil Inners self interested. Then on the outlets side we have Nigel the Good Samaritan Farage, Rupert mother Theresa Murdoch, Lord Florence nightingale rothermere and Boris William wilberforce Johnson with their friends in the hedge funds whose sole aim in life is your happiness

You keep making the mistake of trivialising and personalising the arguements, please stop and argue the case for remaining please. You're better than this post.

 

[EalingBlue2]

You keep making the mistake of trivialising and personalising the arguements, please stop and argue the case for remaining please. You're better than this post.

No I call out nonsense and yes I do it in a trivialising way.

I don't like the hypocrisy of it, everyone who votes out is doing it for moral and good reasons, for other people's good because they are idealist. On the flip side everyone who wants in is self interested, is on the EU payroll, being blinded by bribery etc. It's Rot everyone on both sides is voting why they are for self interest or reasons of the fact they have chosen to believe in a certain right or wrong or in a certain world view. You , me everyone

I don't recall anyone saying Cameron is doing it because he deeply cares or that the hedge fund managers who are funding much of the out vote are doing it because they profit on economic turmoil and make money from pai.

So i am not better than to be calling out the crap and whilst I am happy to argue about remaining and my world view I am not about to let some of the nonsense posted on here go unchallenged.

There is a lot of scare crap on the inner side but the reality is a lot of the scare crap is real. Yes ok WW3 , total collapse is exaggerated and even then it should be explained . But a recession at a time it can't be afforded, a currency crisis, prolonged negotiation of trade, companies leaving etc - all of that is almost certain and for some people the impact will be big - surely even Brexit voters accept that. As to how deep the consequences are that is conjecture and will depend on how people react in the future. But a scare story is every bit as real as a bed of roses scenario as painted by some brexiters and it is a hell of a lot more likely.

But overall why do I argue with a post questioning the motives of only one side ? Because I find it amazing just how often utterly irrelevant trivial matters are turned into huge arguments of import and just how often the motives of Inners are questioned with a complete blindspot as to what the motives are of outers.

When people actually explain their motives honestly, I don't like too many immigrants, my business makes money from the EU etc then you can discuss and disagree with motive but whilst I see some of this honesty on here or talking to people I don't think any of the politicians or media moguls have been honest about their motives.

 

[SWP's back]

I see the Brexit nutters are now claiming that the BBC headlining a major treasury report is advertising.

Simply because it contradicts their stance.

No. Because it says "advertisement" above it.

Pmsl. You blind nutter.

 

[crazyadi]

I don't I want to protect Wales , the north from a London centred US style perpetual government based only on the pursuit of wealth governed only by value I dislike.

I don't see a monolithic simplistic state where being British means you govern in the interests of the British and where my nationality determines if my decisions are good. I don't even believe that sovereignty exists line Brexit paints. I look at every aspect of my life and that of most of the west and see complete entanglement and interdependence, economically, communications wise, militarily, legally,socially etc. The Britain you speak of and the dream you speak of was dealt a fatal wound centuries ago and in a great part due to the global empires and industrial revolution we drove.

The country , the people will be who they are no matter what man made invention of a government rules over them and will always be a huge diverse collection of interests served no better by mandarins in London or politicians in London than those from Brussells

of course there's interdependence but other countries tries manage to manage that as sovereign nations. to work with each other doesn't require use to be swallowed up in a United States of Europe. Does anyone remember what happened to the USSR? a group of once sovereign nations wanted their independence back and it fell apart. Do you really believe a USofE will really care about Wales and the North? once the big plan has come into effect we will have the very thing you don't want. how ever many million UK votes will be as significant as a single constituency voting one way while everyone else votes the opposite, as in completely pointless.

 

[Helmet Cole]

No. Because it says "advertisement" above it.

Pmsl. You blind nutter.

Haha.

 

[stonerblue]

Ah right. Thought you meant the black guy from a Guy Richie film.

Or the supermarket robber in Only Fools and Horses. The Sh-a-dow...

 

[stonerblue]

Great documentary by Paxman on the beeb last night. Well worth a watch.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Great documentary by Paxman on the beeb last night. Well worth a watch.

Agreed everyone should watch that documentary on the I player. A fascinating insight to the utter bollox and beuracracy of the Eu. The best being the the meps getting on the train to travel 4 hours to vote at the other parliament in Strasbourg because that's in the treaty!

Nick clegg interview alone is priceless . I used to like him.

 

[Cheesy]

I can't help but feel that getting a bunch of rich "luvvies" (several of whom don't live in the UK!) to say that we should stay in the EU could be a bit of an own goal by the "In" campaign.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I can't help but feel that getting a bunch of rich "luvvies" (several of whom don't live in the UK!) to say that we should stay in the EU could be a bit of an own goal by the "In" campaign.

Anything supported by that daft lefty woman Emma Thompson is guaranteed to be an own goal.

 

[Why Always Ste]

I've cut myself off the Mainstream media recently and attempted to read general publics views on the EU Ref.

I've become more confused and undecided Haha, but this is probably due to my lack of education in the 90's

Im more in the Out group, and want to vote out, however I genuinely think even if everyone turned out and voted out tomorrow, those in power would overthrow the result and remain in, or have another vote and further push their views on us.

So does it even matter if we (the nobodies) vote?

And I'm voting out because simply put... In my day to day life I'm surrounded more and more by European migrants who openly don't speak English (even though they fluently can when selling you something)
This pisses me off.
The countries have had far better training programmes which has resulted in many polish lads who know the building trade coming here and gaining work... Great they work, but many have undercut the British lads and work for less, so people who have lived here and contributed much more can't get the work.

That's just the building trade as an example.

I also have seen the same situation with Mechanics, with migrants able to repair cars for much cheaper... Great we can get our VW's repaired cheaper than the English mechanic can but he then has to either earn much less or come out of the game.... And I've found the people who have come here are more prone to tax avoidance.
*NOT All.... But many who I've seen trading. Probably just as many British people who trade as well mind you.

Ideally I'd like to see a system which allows us to protect our borders more. Is this achievable out of the EU???
I don't know...

I meet lads who've come from East Europe and have done all sorts of dodgy shit over there.
Come here, gain employment, no background checks, happy days for them.
They'll work hard, send their money to family in their "homeland" and fuck the English.

How is it I can try to gain entry into USA and or AUS yet they'll fine comb me with a toothpick and refuse entry based on employability, criminal checks and so on... Yet go over to Russia right now, chop up some poor bugger with an axe, do some time in a prison there, then come to England with a new name, unchecked and gain employment???

If we came out of the EU and so this was still possible (the flooding of economic migrants from EU) then what's the point in opting out anyway as this is my main gripe.

 

[Helmet Cole]

I think we could do with the leader of a nation that has a restrictive green card system, a border patrolled by armed guards, a constitution that let's any loon wield a gun, would never let any outside organisation make its laws, and only grudgingly accepted black people as human beings in the last fifty years to lecture us on staying in.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

I've cut myself off the Mainstream media recently and attempted to read general publics views on the EU Ref.

I've become more confused and undecided Haha, but this is probably due to my lack of education in the 90's

Im more in the Out group, and want to vote out, however I genuinely think even if everyone turned out and voted out tomorrow, those in power would overthrow the result and remain in, or have another vote and further push their views on us.

So does it even matter if we (the nobodies) vote?

And I'm voting out because simply put... In my day to day life I'm surrounded more and more by European migrants who openly don't speak English (even though they fluently can when selling you something)
This pisses me off.
The countries have had far better training programmes which has resulted in many polish lads who know the building trade coming here and gaining work... Great they work, but many have undercut the British lads and work for less, so people who have lived here and contributed much more can't get the work.

That's just the building trade as an example.

I also have seen the same situation with Mechanics, with migrants able to repair cars for much cheaper... Great we can get our VW's repaired cheaper than the English mechanic can but he then has to either earn much less or come out of the game.... And I've found the people who have come here are more prone to tax avoidance.
*NOT All.... But many who I've seen trading. Probably just as many British people who trade as well mind you.

Ideally I'd like to see a system which allows us to protect our borders more. Is this achievable out of the EU???
I don't know...

I meet lads who've come from East Europe and have done all sorts of dodgy shit over there.
Come here, gain employment, no background checks, happy days for them.
They'll work hard, send their money to family in their "homeland" and fuck the English.

How is it I can try to gain entry into USA and or AUS yet they'll fine comb me with a toothpick and refuse entry based on employability, criminal checks and so on... Yet go over to Russia right now, chop up some poor bugger with an axe, do some time in a prison there, then come to England with a new name, unchecked and gain employment???

If we came out of the EU and so this was still possible (the flooding of economic migrants from EU) then what's the point in opting out anyway as this is my main gripe.

That my friend is why big business want to stay in the Eu. Cheap labour. Have you been to London. It would collapse if the bankers and those working in the city could not have a cheap polish nanny look after the kids , and the Romanian making his coffee in Pret just how he likes it. Or those immigrants that clean his office before he comes in to work for the day.

We all know how expensive London property is what gets me is how the fuck does a barista in pret afford to live in London?