EU referendum

[grunge]

I don't know about Sweden but I do know that Switzerland DO NOT have to abide by any EU free movement of people laws. To say that they do is simply untrue. If we left the EU we WOULD gain control over our borders if we chose to do so.

My mistake on Switzerland, they are not part of EEA. But they are signed up for the free movement and the EU are getting shirty with them as they are trying to add quota's to the free movement.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_6.5.3.html

http://openeurope.org.uk/intelligence/immigration-and-justice/norway-and-switzerland/


To suggest we will get some all singing and dancing agreement "just because" is naive to say the least.

 

[west didsblue]

Odds are even voting out this wont change, when you look at the other countries that are "out" but still trade with the EU ( Norway , Switzerland etc ) they have to obey the same free movement rules.

That is true, however we are probably in a slightly stronger position to push back against that requirement due to us being the rest of the EU's biggest export market, and much bigger than what we export to them. If they impose unreasonable restrictions on trade with us, it'll hurt them more than it would hurt us.

 

[grunge]

That is true, however we are probably in a slightly stronger position to push back against that requirement due to us being the rest of the EU's biggest export market, and much bigger than what we export to them. If they impose unreasonable restrictions on trade with us, it'll hurt them more than it would hurt us.

Possibly, but we were in just as strong position back in February when Cameron got very little out of the negotiations when he went to the EU.

If they do give us a preferential deal it will anger those countries with lesser deals, and it shows others countries in the EU that they could do the same creating a domino effect which the EU would want to prevent.

All in all, there would be short term hits giving us a bad deal and long short term gains but possible long term losses giving us a good deal. No one will know how it will pan out till it does but everyone that just assumes we will get some cushy deal is being blindly optimistic in my eyes.

 

[west didsblue]

Possibly, but we were in just as strong position back in February when Cameron got very little out of the negotiations when he went to the EU.

If they do give us a preferential deal it will anger those countries with lesser deals, and it shows others countries in the EU that they could do the same creating a domino effect which the EU would want to prevent.

All in all, there would be short term hits giving us a bad deal and long short term gains but possible long term losses giving us a good deal. No one will know how it will pan out till it does but everyone that just assumes we will get some cushy deal is being blindly optimistic in my eyes.

I don't see why we need a deal. No deal means a default to WTO regulations which are the basis of current trade with our biggest non-EU trading partners - the USA and China.

 

[grunge]

I don't see why we need a deal. No deal means a default to WTO regulations which are the basis of current trade with our biggest non-EU trading partners - the USA and China.

Without a deal our imports and exports from the EU would increase in price making consumer goods a lot more expensive on the street for us consumers. at the very least you have to add vat on purchases from Europe etc, it would create rip off Britain 2.0.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

That is true, however we are probably in a slightly stronger position to push back against that requirement due to us being the rest of the EU's biggest export market, and much bigger than what we export to them. If they impose unreasonable restrictions on trade with us, it'll hurt them more than it would hurt us.

But I've always thought that continental Europeans would be more likely to cut off their noses to spite their faces. Juncker has started already with his 'deserters' talk. They aren't gonna be happy that one of the big boys is gonna jump ship for the desert island! But it was Froggy de Gaulle who didn't want us in the first place. It's just taken far too long for us to realise that it just doesn't do us all that good. On balance!

 

[BigJoe#1]

Remind me Dave.... Could we survive outside the EU? Just askin because you seem a bit.... duplicitous?

 

[blueonblue]

You want to be part of the EEA you abide by the rules of it, and pay a shit ton of cash to it! one of the key rules is free movement of people.

Who is this YOU who wants to be part of the EEA ?, why on earth would we want continue with being ordered about by some f*cker who wants to sell us more than we sell them ?, AND charge us for the privilege.

The real world option is either they trade freely or stick their goods, but you will find its businesses that trade not the f*cking EU.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Remind me Dave.... Could we survive outside the EU? Just askin because you seem a bit.... duplicitous?

Cameron is like most politicians who achieve high office - they generally don't give a shit! Those who haven't achieved high office do give a shit, because they want to achieve high office. And Cameron is among that group who would not suffer one jot whether we were in or out.

 

[grunge]

Who is this YOU who wants to be part of the EEA ?, why on earth would we want continue with being ordered about by some f*cker who wants to sell us more than we sell them ?, AND charge us for the privilege.

The real world option is either they trade freely or stick their goods, but you will find its businesses that trade not the f*cking EU.

"You" being a general term for anyone that wants to be part of the European trading block.

Yep, its business that trade, and if they think it will be cheaper to move there factories to make it cheaper they will.

 

[west didsblue]

Remind me Dave.... Could we survive outside the EU? Just askin because you seem a bit.... duplicitous?

Don't forget WW3 as well if we leave.

 

[smudgedj]

Without a deal our imports and exports from the EU would increase in price making consumer goods a lot more expensive on the street for us consumers. at the very least you have to add vat on purchases from Europe etc, it would create rip off Britain 2.0.

Tut.
Punitive tariffs are banned under WTO rules. We are far too important a trading partner to for German big business to incur any penalties.

 

[grunge]

Tut.
Punitive tariffs are banned under WTO rules. We are far too important a trading partner to for German big business to incur any penalties.

Who said its Punitive, if you buy something from the US/China/Japan/etc etc ( which I have done a fair amount of over the years ) at the moment you pay the VAT of the country of Origin and then our VAT as it enters the country, Its just the way it is, without trade deals things are going to get a lot more expensive for us people on the streets.

Sorry but its just blind optimism that Germany will "just trade with us".

Ask yourself this, what would cost Germany more, giving us a preferential deal and possibly causing a domino effect in Europe or giving BMW some subsidies to move the factories currently in the UK to Germany?


Best example I can give at the moment, PS4 is currently €349.99/£299.99, up until about a decade ago when some rules changed in the EU that was €349.99/£349.99, we exit the EU and the 1st thing people will spot is everything like this reverting back to €349.99/£349.99.

 

[smudgedj]

Who said its Punitive, if you buy something from the US/China/Japan/etc etc ( which I have done a fair amount of over the years ) at the moment you pay the VAT of the country of Origin and then our VAT as it enters the country, Its just the way it is, without trade deals things are going to get a lot more expensive for us people on the streets.

Sorry but its just blind optimism that Germany will "just trade with us".

Ask yourself this, what would cost Germany more, giving us a preferential deal and possibly causing a domino effect in Europe or giving BMW some subsidies to move the factories currently in the UK to Germany?


Best example I can give at the moment, PS4 is currently €349.99/£299.99, up until about a decade ago when some rules changed in the EU that was €349.99/£349.99, we exit the EU and the 1st thing people will spot is everything like this reverting back to €349.99/£349.99.

Business investment depends on profits not politics.

 

[grunge]

Business investment depends on profits not politics.

yep, and businesses are purely psychopathic in nature, they are there to serve there board members and share holders, if they feel they can make more money by leaving the UK and going to France or something so they can freely trade in the EU they will. they wont give a crap about making people redundant.

And us exiting will make things more expensive for a lot of businesses.

 

[smudgedj]

yep, and businesses are purely psychopathic in nature, they are there to serve there board members and share holders, if they feel they can make more money by leaving the UK and going to France or something so they can freely trade in the EU they will. they wont give a crap about making people redundant.

And us exiting will make things more expensive for a lot of businesses.

They are here because it´s an advantage to be here. Those advantages would be enhanced if the UK was free to offer deals and terms that it is currently prevented from doing by the need to comply with EU rules and directives.

 

[Manchester_lalala]

Cameron is like most politicians who achieve high office - they generally don't give a shit! Those who haven't achieved high office do give a shit, because they want to achieve high office. And Cameron is among that group who would not suffer one jot whether we were in or out.

It's why we will remain in the eu, the bullshit he comes out with persuades the neutrals to vote to stay in.

 

[grunge]

They are here because it´s an advantage to be here. Those advantages would be enhanced if the UK was free to offer deals and terms that it is currently prevented from doing by the need to comply with EU rules and directives.

They are here because its advantageous and cheaper NOW. but will it be advantageous after we leave? If international company X trades mostly with Europe, and set up its Euro HQ and Factories etc in the UK as a stepping stone into the EU then odds are it will be cheaper for them to shut up shop in the UK and move somewhere in the EU. if they are here for a specific skill set then they will probably stay.

Business decisions will be mathematics based, not emotional and they will go where they can make the most money, for some that will be staying here, for others that will be leaving.

Edit: there will be the odd exception to the rule, for example I would expect someone like Virgin to take a hit and stick about as Branson seems to rate people over profits.

 

[smudgedj]

They are here because its advantageous and cheaper NOW. but will it be advantageous after we leave? If international company X trades mostly with Europe, and set up its Euro HQ and Factories etc in the UK as a stepping stone into the EU then odds are it will be cheaper for them to shut up shop in the UK and move somewhere in the EU. if they are here for a specific skill set then they will probably stay.

Business decisions will be mathematics based, not emotional and they will go where they can make the most money, for some that will be staying here, for others that will be leaving.

Edit: there will be the odd exception to the rule, for example I would expect someone like Virgin to take a hit and stick about as Branson seems to rate people over profits.

So we are both in agreement then. They are here because it´s an advantage to be here. Those advantages would be enhanced if the UK was free to offer deals and terms that it is currently prevented from doing by the need to comply with EU rules and directives.

 

[kas_tippler]

Basically if we vote to leave we'll end up living in mud huts and the sun will never rise in the East.