EU referendum

[The perfect fumble]

Corbyn and his following of freaks should hang their heads in shame.

Yeah, and your shit smells of rosemary and lavender.

 

[BigJoe#1]

This is the core issue with Brexit as it was with the Scottish independence vote. Everything good happens despite of the EU (or Uk) everything bad happens because of the EU (uk) surely no one will seriously fall for that line - it's Kim Jong il in its bias

EB2. Go find yourself a full length mirror, stand in front of it and take a good long hard look.

You are everything to the remain campaign to a tee, that you accuse the Brexiters of being.... Honest!

 

[inchy14]

Mountains of red tape, I can assure you of you go back through history and look at the tariffs, trade embargoes, other taxes and at multiple levels of government and other such things that used to exist in many ways global and European trade is easier than it's ever been.

Yet takes 15 years to come to an agreement with Canada for example, because all 28 countries need to ensure that they get the best deal for themselves, which is fine and understandable, however you can't seriously suggest it wouldn't be easier to have to come to an arrangement by ourselves?

 

[Monkfish]

Hmmmm - 'pretence' is the key word here. I have sat in many rooms with many senior Civil Servants - up to Perm Sec level - musing over how economic/financial/evaluation models can be designed to bring forward a pre-disposed position of ministers and Secretaries of State - but I will not go too much into that on an open forum.

What I will say clearly is that senior Civil Servants are very protective of their career paths and for every example you could name of someone that has taken a principled stance there are a mass that have managed the outcome to please their master(s).

You are right to be sceptical of the data from think-tanks, who secure a lot of their funding and the majority of their revenue streams from being 'respected' by government, but you should (only IMHO) take the outpourings from the remain camp equally with a healthy level of scepticism.

agree to a point, but a lot of the analysts are totally reliant on their independence for their future, and there is an awful lot of money in stockbroker Farage and his cohorts pockets, but he doesnt seem to be able to influence anybody to back up his theories

 

[blueonblue]

If you want to go for history, Britain has nine hundred years as a trading nation under its belt and managed just fine.

If you want to trust Call me Dave then look no further than his stance he got anything but the bums rush when he went cap in hand for "Significant" reforms, or that he was planning the remain campaign with big business even while "Fighting for a fairer deal" for the UK.

You could trust the Treasury report, but then they have not managed to be right on so many things including the doom and gloom when trying to get us in the ERM ( Same as the IMF &IFS bye the way).

If you dont know the difference between mass immigration an the benefits of bringing in people with the skills needed to help the country grow you should perhaps take the trouble to learn.

There is no remain as we are, the EU is going ahead with full federalization and everything it brings with it, I suggest you look at what that means to you and yours before being frightened into voting to stay within an organisation corrupt to its core.

 

[mcfc1632]

And when 28 become 33 and counting........... With increasingly diverse cultures and interests

It will only get more bureaucratic and stagnate to a standstill

 

[EalingBlue2]

Hmmmm - 'pretence' is the key word here. I have sat in many rooms with many senior Civil Servants - up to Perm Sec level - musing over how economic/financial/evaluation models can be designed to bring forward a pre-disposed position of ministers and Secretaries of State - but I will not go too much into that on an open forum.

What I will say clearly is that senior Civil Servants are very protective of their career paths and for every example you could name of someone that has taken a principled stance there are a mass that have managed the outcome to please their master(s).

You are right to be sceptical of the data from think-tanks, who secure a lot of their funding and the majority of their revenue streams from being 'respected' by government, but you should (only IMHO) take the outpourings from the remain camp equally with a healthy level of scepticism.

I have paid little attention to the in camp I already have my view and I think their campaign is weak when it really is strong. I look at the last 30 years as my evidence and the state of play today and not speculation on the future .

 

[inchy14]

no it's not all down to the EU , it's probably mainly down to baby boomers selling a countries infrastructure for short term gain and nuclear weapons deterring war as much as the EU or anything else and that's not my point, it is the nonsense of someone pretending the last 40 years have been fucked!

I've already told you what i meant but i'll just reiterate it for you.

The last 40 years has seen the common market being turned into a federalist european superstate which the vast majority of Europeans don't want, and i said that over the next 10 years they'll push us further into a united Europe including try to force the same currency on us all, sign us up to a European army and greater union.

Now if you're quite happy about it feel free to vote in, oh hang on it actually won't affect you sat in Sydney/Melbourne?, where half of the things us 'little Englanders' want you already have in place will it.

 

[EalingBlue2]

EB2. Go find yourself a full length mirror, stand in front of it and take a good long hard look.

You are everything to the remain campaign to a tee, that you accuse the Brexiters of being.... Honest!

Thanks that felt good - what a handsome old devil!

Inners don't need to make up propaganda for the future it's really a question of today and the past ie are the long term negative trends in the UK economy causes by the EU ? Clearly not as they started nearly a century before? Are problematic economics today caused by the EU? Mainly not its the GFC? Do I trust EU bureaucrats or British politicians to make better decisions? Probably, Do I think the British economy has enough on the balance sheet to deal with any short term economic problems? No, do I think the UK can compete on the open market with Asia ? No All based on today or the past century without any need to make up a golden picture of the future

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Thanks that felt good - what a handsome old devil!

Inners don't need to make up propaganda for the future it's really a question of today and the past ie are the long term negative trends in the UK economy causes by the EU ? Clearly not as they started nearly a century before? Are problematic economics today caused by the EU? Mainly not its the GFC? Do I trust EU bureaucrats or British politicians to make better decisions? Probably, Do I think the British economy has enough on the balance sheet to deal with any short term economic problems? No, do I think the UK can compete on the open market with Asia ? No All based on today or the past century without any need to make up a golden picture of the future

I really don't think you have any idea what is happening in Europe, the only two balance sheets strong enough are the uk and Germany. The whole of Southern Europe is fooked. France unemployment is over 10 percent and brain drain due to really high taxes continues at pace ( a lot have moved to London) Oh they are blockading petroleum stations today btw in France.

You are looking at his the wrong way. If the uk left the Eu, it is the eu s balance sheet which would fooked. The U.K. Would be fine.

Even the catostrophic scaremongering of the treasury is stating that there would be four periods of retraction at 0.1 percent each quarter. That's it and that is without the uk govt or Bank of England doing any corrective action. The 2008 crisis was far higher and worse than that.

 

[EalingBlue2]

I really don't think you have any idea what is happening in Europe, the only two balance sheets strong enough are the uk and Germany. The whole of Southern Europe is fooked. France unemployment is over 10 percent and brain drain due to really high taxes continues at pace ( a lot have moved to London) Oh they are blockading petroleum stations today btw in France.

You are looking at his the wrong way. If the uk left the Eu, it is the eu s balance sheet which would fooked. The U.K. Would be fine.

Even the catostrophic scaremongering of the treasury is stating that there would be four periods of retraction at 0.1 percent each quarter. That's it and that is without the uk govt or Bank of England doing any corrective action. The 2008 crisis was far higher and worse than that.

A 1.7 trillion deficit , with another estimated 5 trillion plus of unfunded pension and health costs to come and with a long term economic decline is not fine , its dreadful. I agree most of the EU is no better or much worse. None can afford reckless risks with the fragile growth today.

2008 was worse but we had some ammunition left, now the cupboard is bare

 

[Monkfish]

And when 28 become 33 and counting........... With increasingly diverse cultures and interests

It will only get more bureaucratic and stagnate to a standstill

aye, it could be a problem in the future - but despite our apparent 'loss of sovereignty' we could leave at a later date, on balance its still pretty positive for me at the moment

 

[Monkfish]

You could trust the Treasury report, but then they have not managed to be right on so many things including the doom and gloom when trying to get us in the ERM ( Same as the IMF &IFS bye the way).

you see this is part of the problem the Leave campaign has - why would blueonblue regurgitate the made up drivel spouted by algarvblu yesterday? Is algarvblu made up nonsense on a wednesday now a fact on a thursday? That how it works in the world of Leave?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

A 1.7 trillion deficit , with another estimated 5 trillion plus of unfunded pension and health costs to come and with a long term economic decline is not fine , its dreadful. I agree most of the EU is no better or much worse. None can afford reckless risks with the fragile growth today.

2008 was worse but we had some ammunition left, now the cupboard is bare

So stay in and whoosh abracadabra it's gone.

 

[EalingBlue2]

So stay in and whoosh abracadabra it's gone.

It will be there just the same but this is what our politicians should be dealing with not wasting years and huge political capital on a nothing decision which is what In or out will be.

 

[blueonblue]

you see this is part of the problem the Leave campaign has - why would blueonblue regurgitate the made up drivel spouted by algarvblu yesterday? Is algarvblu made up nonsense on a wednesday now a fact on a thursday? That how it works in the world of Leave?

Perhaps you would enlighten us on which bits are made up oh all knowing one ?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

It will be there just the same but this is what our politicians should be dealing with not wasting years and huge political capital on a nothing decision which is what In or out will be.

Agree there is a huge lump in the carpet at Brussels and Westminster.

Remember the housing and debt bubble that led the 2008 crash well errr.........

 

[Monkfish]

Perhaps you would enlighten us on which bits are made up oh all knowing one ?

of course, though normally the person spouting bollocks is obliged to bring their evidence forwards but for you I will make an exception

every single thing I quoted typed by your good self was wrong, bullshit, incorrect, a fallacy, inaccurate and erroneous

I do admire that you regurgitated yesterdays algarvian garbage with the addition of your own (Treasury Report - though to be fair I bet in the 1000's of treasury reports produced one somewhere was probably for the Euro)

maybe another organisation will be added to tomorrows made up guff, anyone for adding NASA to the list?

 

[AlgarveBlu]

you see this is part of the problem the Leave campaign has - why would blueonblue regurgitate the made up drivel spouted by algarvblu yesterday? Is algarvblu made up nonsense on a wednesday now a fact on a thursday? That how it works in the world of Leave?

I acknowledged I put the euro argument under the wrong heading of what should have been CBI and also provided other examples of where the IMF had got things badly wrong and not just on Greece. My views and opinions come from first hand experiences working in the financial sector and being based here in mainland Europe where yours are just collection of copy and paste spineless shite that you regurgitate from your remain pamhphlet

 

[mcfc1632]

agree to a point, but a lot of the analysts are totally reliant on their independence for their future, and there is an awful lot of money in stockbroker Farage and his cohorts pockets, but he doesnt seem to be able to influence anybody to back up his theories

I am not saying the recent Remain outpourings are 'bent' - but they are clearly heavily biased - through the process of loading the inputs to the models with worst case scenarios. Every single - I stand to be corrected but think that I am right - source for the recent 'data' has some level of vested interest in supporting the remain camp. Treasury - well that is a given. IMF also. CBI - certainly.