EU referendum

[EalingBlue2]

To be certain, Britain has a fair few problems. That said, they pale in comparison to those faced by other countries, many within the EU. Accordingly, having initial, intermediate and final say over the remedies to those problems is EXACTLY why sovereignty is, or should be, so important to Britons.

Like you, I see a fairly painful global reckoning coming, as the "Ponzi schemes" of which you speak cannot last forever. However, we may see a different path to that final outcome. From afar, I see a country that is becoming increasingly reliant on the social pact, rather than personal responsibility. As others have mentioned, it is obvious there are haves and have nots in Britain, both regionally and personally, but that excuse is just that...an excuse. There are today, as there have always been, imperatives to "getting ahead." Some prefer to ignore them and simply blame society for their lot in life, while others dust themselves off and do what is necessary to make the best fist of it. In Britain I see to many of the former and not enough of the latter.

Yes, many of the heavy industry jobs (coal, steel and manufacturing) in Britain have been widely supplanted by services and other light industry. That tide waits for no man, so one either educates and trains or one falters and falls behind. It is a personal choice. THAT is somewhat that is seemingly missing from large swaths of Britiash society in 2016. There seems to be a mentality that "things are bad, someone needs to ... for me" rather than "things are bad, I need to ... for myself."

There is certainly a case to be made that I could have been that guy if I had stayed in th Manchester area, but I doubt it. After all, there was a time when I had $5 to my name in the U.S., and my parents had to file bankruptcy because of a dodgy accountant fucking them over on their taxes and Internal Revenue not caring a bit, but I survived and thrived.

Sad to say, I think the British disease, (which is rampant, especially amongst the lower working classes and unemployed (unemployable???)) is magnified by the "I will do whatever it takes to get ahead" mentality I find myself immersed in here in the U.S. Entitlement (believing you deserve/have something because of who you are), whether it is the silver spoons on the one end or the wooden spoons on the other, is a disease that needs eliminating.

I think that there are elements of truth to what you say but rather than being the fault of individuals it is the fault of society. We have increasingly seen us cut investment in the quality of education and training, of outside school support for kids and of investing in the future. Shallow consumerism and celebrity culture has been encouraged in the place of education and skills and giving everyone a chance and that hurts. The truth is this culture is a vicious circle, if one generation sets no example of work, attaches no importance to education and training it becomes endemic in the next. Yes with economic issues we should pull back some spending but it should never be spending on children, their health, their education and their training ax this is the future of the country and the whole basis for how we firm our place in the works.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Agree there is a huge lump in the carpet at Brussels and Westminster.

Remember the housing and debt bubble that led the 2008 crash well errr.........

I do a crisis that over the years was fought for by Britain as we pushed Europe to remove all controls on banking and allow to happen. A crisis made in New York and supported in London

 

[EalingBlue2]

The "Twatterverse" remainers are already rounding on that Emily lass who highlighted the difficulties in housing as a result of unvetted immigration. Commenting on her appearance, speculating her work ethic, employment status, welfare claims and number of children she may or may not have as a negative. Remainers are a lovely bunch; one minute lauding the benefits of...benefits yet rounding on those who they speculate must be claiming it.

I have seen those immigrants amongst other things called scum on here so I wouldn't be casting that stone

 

[Metal Biker]

I have seen those immigrants amongst other things called scum on here so I wouldn't be casting that stone

If you condemn one, condemn the other.

 

[Monkfish]

"...in 2014"

"Between 2000-2013 Norway implemented less than 10%"

Someone doesn't know how to count, or read, or provide links and sources to their claims.
Misrespresenting stats to bolster ones claims again? Naughty naughty.

What were the 627 regulations they implemented? What did it apply to? How did it affect sovereignty in Norway? How did they damage or promote the Norwegian economy? Or were they reasonable regulations such as "car exhausts should now exert 0.001% carbon monoxide less than last year" or something? You don't explain much.

Sorry I will be clearer for you

In 2010-2013 Norway vetoed 1 EU regulation. They implemented every other regulation, and if none of these were important then it's no problem for the UK either is it?

Assuming a similar level to 2014 that's 3000 regulations implemented,1 not implemented. That ok for you? I will add some umlauts if it is still a struggle

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

I have seen those immigrants amongst other things called scum on here so I wouldn't be casting that stone

Some of the immigrants are scum.

The fellas going around sexually assaulting and raping women in Cologne on NYE were scum. Utter scum.

 

[aguero93:20]

"...in 2014"

"Between 2000-2013 Norway implemented less than 10%"

Someone doesn't know how to count, or read, or provide links and sources to their claims.
Misrespresenting stats to bolster ones claims again? Naughty naughty.

What were the 627 regulations they implemented? What did it apply to? How did it affect sovereignty in Norway? How did they damage or promote the Norwegian economy? Or were they reasonable regulations such as "car exhausts should now exert 0.001% carbon monoxide less than last year" or something? You don't explain much.

Can you list the 10%? FWIW Norway has implemented around 75% of EU legislation, they don't apply many regulations domesically (somewhere between 15-20%) but any business in Norway trading with the EU is subject to exactly the same conditions as a respective business in the UK.

 

[EalingBlue2]

If you condemn one, condemn the other.

Fair enough I wasn't condoning either

 

[EalingBlue2]

Some of the immigrants are scum.

The fellas going around sexually assaulting and raping women in Cologne on NYE were scum. Utter scum.

As are those who do this who are born and bred Anglo Saxons. There are terrible people of every gender, sex, colour and creed and I wouldn't blanket label any of them scum.

 

[Monkfish]

If you condemn one, condemn the other.

I would have thought Ealing is the one who gets the most attacks on here, but then again he is an immigrant so probably deserves it

 

[Metal Biker]

Sorry I will be clearer for you

In 2010-2013 Norway vetoed 1 EU regulation. They implemented every other regulation, and if none of these were important then it's no problem for the UK either is it?

Assuming a similar level to 2014 that's 3000 regulations implemented,1 not implemented. That ok for you? I will add some umlaut if it is still a struggle

No. They. Did. Not. This is a backtracking argument at it's finest.

This info is coming from Nei til EU, the campaign which endeavours to keep Norway out of the European Union. Norway picks and chooses what EU regulations best suit them and Norwegians. The UK has to accept them ALL, regardless of if they benefit the country or the economy. That is the monumental difference. There may be a dozen pointless regulations (the mythical 'straight banana' one is a case in point) that have to be accepted by the UK and the Norwegians, in order to favour good trade relationships, accepted these harmless regulations. But the ESM? EU Army? Eurozone? Migration crisis? The UK has no say on these matters but Norway DOES and has the RIGHT to refuse them, and none of it affects their trade relations with the EU, ins pite of being told by EU fearmongers that Norway would be isolated and the EU would refuse to trade with them, it didn't and hasn't happened.

You can forget the umlauts, I prefer mopping the floor at my local TSB. Or whatever blase comment you choose to make with others, fishy knickers.

 

[Metal Biker]

As are those who do this who are born and bred Anglo Saxons. There are terrible people of every gender, sex, colour and creed and I wouldn't blanket label any of them scum.

"Immigrant" isn't a race, you know. There are immigrants of every gender, sex, colour, creed, religious background, ethnic background and nationality. Those 'immigrants' who attacked those women in cologne and across Germany are scum. Such a statement is not a sweeping generalisation of any identification.

 

[WNRH]

Watched the BBC Debate. I was originally out but now i'm undecided. One of the audience members got it spot on, neither side are stating why my vote would benefit me and my country. All i've heard is scaremongering from both sides.

 

[Metal Biker]

I would have thought Ealing is the one who gets the most attacks on here, but then again he is an immigrant so probably deserves it

That's not very nice of you. You owe Ealing an apology, racist.

 

[Metal Biker]

Watched the BBC Debate. I was originally out but now i'm undecided. One of the audience members got it spot on, neither side are stating why my vote would benefit me and my country. All i've heard is scaremongering from both sides.

Pretty much, which is why i'm one of those frequently annoyed by these sorts of debates and also how the debate has regressed.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

As are those who do this who are born and bred Anglo Saxons. There are terrible people of every gender, sex, colour and creed and I wouldn't blanket label any of them scum.

Knew you'd respond with a whataboutism to that mate, bravo. Like clockwork.

What's more, no one has blanket labeled any/all immigrants as scum.

 

[Monkfish]

No. They. Did. Not. This is a backtracking argument at it's finest.

This info is coming from Nei til EU, the campaign which endeavours to keep Norway out of the European Union. Norway picks and chooses what EU regulations best suit them and Norwegians. The UK has to accept them ALL, regardless of if they benefit the country or the economy. That is the monumental difference. There may be a dozen pointless regulations (the mythical 'straight banana' one is a case in point) that have to be accepted by the UK and the Norwegians, in order to favour good trade relationships, accepted these harmless regulations. But the ESM? EU Army? Eurozone? Migration crisis? The UK has no say on these matters but Norway DOES and has the RIGHT to refuse them, and none of it affects their trade relations with the EU, ins pite of being told by EU fearmongers that Norway would be isolated and the EU would refuse to trade with them, it didn't and hasn't happened.

You can forget the umlauts, I prefer mopping the floor at my local TSB. Or whatever blase comment you choose to make with others, fishy knickers.

No. They. Did. Not. This is a backtracking argument at it's finest.

This info is coming from Nei til EU, the campaign which endeavours to keep Norway out of the European Union. Norway picks and chooses what EU regulations best suit them and Norwegians. The UK has to accept them ALL, regardless of if they benefit the country or the economy. That is the monumental difference. There may be a dozen pointless regulations (the mythical 'straight banana' one is a case in point) that have to be accepted by the UK and the Norwegians, in order to favour good trade relationships, accepted these harmless regulations. But the ESM? EU Army? Eurozone? Migration crisis? The UK has no say on these matters but Norway DOES and has the RIGHT to refuse them, and none of it affects their trade relations with the EU, ins pite of being told by EU fearmongers that Norway would be isolated and the EU would refuse to trade with them, it didn't and hasn't happened.

You can forget the umlauts, I prefer mopping the floor at my local TSB. Or whatever blase comment you choose to make with others, fishy knickers.

Norway has no rights to deny EU citizens access to live and work in Norway, as it donates to the EU and implemented all EU regulations (except one) it has access to the single market, so it's hardly gone isolationist has it?

I assume you are pushing for the Norway model then?

 

[Metal Biker]

Norway has no rights to deny EU citizens access to live and work in Norway, as it donates to the EU and implemented all EU regulations (except one) it has access to the single market, so it's hardly gone isolationist has it?

I assume you are pushing for the Norway model then?

Good job that EU immigration isn't a factor for me then, isn't it when it comes to voting out.

So there's a moot point. Neither am I an isolationist. No, i'm more the rejection of unelected Commissioners, TTIP, protection of banks, forcing a EU superstate, forcing an EU Army, the failure of the Euro, loss of diversity amongst European nations, EU Flag, cheap labour, rather than where a person comes from. Live and let live. I want Britain to trade not just with the EU, but with the world, unrestricted, negotiating with various regions, actually make our elected politicians and government work for their overinflated wages. Migration helps nations thrive but people also need to understand the negative impact of too much migration. Again, not saying I personally have a problem but I understand the logic behind the concerns of those who do (aside from those who can only see skin colour)

Norway seems to have this same attitude, hence why it doesn't mind accepting EU migration as part of it's continuted trade deals. I'm between an EEA and EFTA arrangement or neither, and creating one that is specific to the UK, just as China, Canada, Mexico, India, Brazil, South Korea, Thailand etc have done. I was once a passionte inner in 2005, during 2006-2009 I began having doubts, then I realised I could no longer defend the direction the EU was heading in. My opinions, views and arguements about leaving the EU have been based on fact checked information, I have had my opinions changed one way and the other many times due to lack of accurate information (from both sides of the argument), hence why i've reached the decision that I have.

I honestly feel the European Union is a relic of the 20th Century and has no place being associated with a modern Britain finding it's feet in the world in the foreseeable future. I'd like to see other European nations follow suit, the European Union dissolve into nothing, the Eurozone breakup and for all European nations reform it from the remains, not from within it's current corrupt, totalitarian state.

 

[CitizenTID]

As are those who do this who are born and bred Anglo Saxons. There are terrible people of every gender, sex, colour and creed and I wouldn't blanket label any of them scum.

You've clearly not read the educational Joey Barton thread in the General Football Forum have you recently? Calling English Anglo-Saxon can be compared to calling an Indian a Paki.

Your point to ChicagoBlue is spot on though. Plus, IF the economy did take a bit of a hit - it might wake up a lot of people to get shit together - for themselves or the country whoever they may be. We'll be better off in the long run sorting out our own affairs. Even if the EU is something to consider in future with different rules, we need to get out now to sort out the mess we're in before we move forward. Actually, a lot of countries seem to be in a lot bigger mess than us because of the EU.

 

[BlueHammer85]

http://infacts.org/uk-stay-eu-900-words/