EU referendum

[kevin horlocks wand]

Which I suspect is exactly what the tax dodging media moguls, their tax dodging friends, those who own ten homes whilst many have none, corrupt mp's, hedge fund owners who trade on misery and the bankers who cost the country 2 trillion pounds want, if they can keep the plebs divided , keep focus on Europe to be to blame for everything and get people focuses on immigrants then they can go on there merry way and keep taking the piss out of every one of you. Powerful people turning you against yourselves and laughing all the way to the bank (probably located in the BVI or Bermuda)

Everyone it seems has fallen for it as well so shame on everyone.

After all why blame a media mogul who pays 0.1% tax, a trust fund baby with ten homes or a banker who made millions a year bankrupting your kids when you could blame a polish builder or a Syrian regfugee instead. Why blame those who drop the bombs when you can blame those they land on.

If it wasn't so sad and predictable it would be hilarious.

Agree with that. That's why voting out would put a shock up the establishment. Voting in just means the same fear and shit carries on and they feel they can get away with it.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Who voted for us to be in the EU ?

Who voted for free movement of people ?

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

But they are governing for 28 nations all with different social economic and political cultures. The meps do not even sit in countries they represent. . They sit in ideological groups. You have fascists and far right elected meps and left wing communists elected meps discussing the laws affecting me. Now that's comedy gold.

Say what you like about the three pillars of our democracy it tends to lead to moderate centre politics in the uk and has done so for many years....

I understand your point but many votes are basing their vote on poor NHS, Cameron not doing what he said he would do, Uni fees etc, etc......and 90% of these issues are not EU related, they are local government related issues and will not change if we leave the EU....thats the wrong reason to vote out as believe it will get alot worse before it gets better if we leave.....If we not careful we just going to let the "British pride" of not wanting the EU to have a say on what this country does, stand in the way of making the right decision.......I personally think its going to be a massive risk to leave and I dont see strong enough reasons why we need to take that risk....I'm just trying to separate the Tory issues with EU issues......and think we kidding ourselves if we think our export trade, manufacturing, etc,etc are strong enough at this point to take a few years of uncertainty....just my opinion!;)

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

I'm not sure there are large numbers people who'd vote leave just to get rid of Cameron. Being rid of Cameron is not the same as being rid of the Tories.

Sorry....when I say Cameron I mean Tories/the government....I dont separate the two! ;)

 

[cibaman]

I'm not sure there are large numbers people who'd vote leave just to get rid of Cameron. Being rid of Cameron is not the same as being rid of the Tories.

It would seem to be a strange objective, since getting rid of Cameron now would inevitably mean that he would be replaced by someone even more right wing which would then mean that the government as a whole would move further to the right.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

Who voted for us to be in the EU ?

Who voted for free movement of people ?

Ted Heath , our democratically elected PM signed theTreaty of Rome in 1972 , which included the freedom of movement rules, then in 1992 , another 'democratically elected PM' ( though he was only PM at that time due to Thatcher being sacked by the Tories , and himself becoming our PM due to a vote inside the Conservative party, before his successful election later that year) signed the treaty of Maastricht which created the conditions for closer European integration.
Both were in power on a minority of votes cast, but that's the 'democratic' system for you .

 

[EalingBlue2]

There was nothing unconstitutional about joining the Common Market.

Some people have watched too many US law shows and make comments that sound good.

 

[mcfc1632]

wtf? you want the in out campaign to last how long exactly? a couple of years? if you can't make your mind up in the time needed then don't vote but I think I speak for the majority when I say we will be glad to see the back of this endless regurgitated nonsense from all sides, don't think anything new has been said in the last month in public or on this forum

I would actually be more excited if we did vote leave, be interesting to see what happens and if we vote stay it will be a bit of a 'well that was a waste of time'

A number of your posts have made absolutely no sense - this one in its entirety has nothing to do with the messages provided in my post that you quote - you really are a bit weird

 

[EalingBlue2]

Agree with that. That's why voting out would put a shock up the establishment. Voting in just means the same fear and shit carries on and they feel they can get away with it.

No it doesn't it lets them off the leash to build the capitalist American culture they want and reverse everything Attlee did that they have hated aince day 1

 

[Manchester_lalala]

Anyone with half a GCSE in woodwork would know he is waffling.

His top lip was going when she said he was waffling, I thought he was about to cry.

 

[mcfc1632]

I think the truth is far simpler, every day there is uncertainty, every day the UK is divided and every day that planning is on hold are all bad for Britain. It's like putting off going to the doctor when you think you have something serious wrong, best to get it done,, get a diagnosis and either stop worrying (as is the case here) or get on with the cure. A long period of toxic debate, anti immigration pushes, uncertainty in investment was utterly stupid and he should have called for the vote two ears ago rather than all the wasted time in between.

I agree - I think that it would be daft to drag out the referendum until a late date in the window.

The point I was making is the manner in which it has been planned, the controls exerted to ensure that 'leavers' in the Tory party have been muzzled, the level to which the Civil Service has been exploited and the extent to which the 'independent' bodies have been orchestrated all reflect the level to which:

a) Remain/Cameron wish to avoid the populace becoming informed
b) The desire to cut and run quickly whilst the Remain propaganda is out there and strictly limiting the 'right of reply' to the minimum amount of time legally possible and
c) The complacency of the EU and Remain camp up to this point - taking the outcome for granted - and thereby exposing the level of contempt that they hold for the UK populace

 

[blueonblue]

There was nothing unconstitutional about joining the Common Market

Just weeks before the 1970 general election which made him Prime Minister, Edward Heath declared that it would be wrong if any Government contemplating membership of the European Community were to take this step without `the full hearted consent of Parliament and people'.

However, when it came to it Heath didn't have a referendum because opinion polls at the time (1972) showed that the British people were hugely opposed (by a margin of two to one) against joining the Common Market. Instead, Heath merely signed the documents that took us into what became the European Union on the basis that Parliament alone had passed the European Communities Bill of 1972.

Precedents show that the British constitution (which may not be written and formalised in the same way as the American constitution is presented) but which is, nevertheless, enshrined and codified in the Magna Carta (1215), the Petition of Right (1628), the Bill of Rights (1689) and the Act of Settlement (1701) requires Parliament to consult the electorate directly where constitutional change which would affect their political sovereignty is in prospect. (The 1689 Bill of Rights contains the following oath: `I do declare that no foreign prince, person, prelate, state or potentate hath or ought to have jurisdiction, power, superiority, pre-eminence or authority within this Realm.' Since this Bill has not been repealed it is clear that every treaty Britain has signed with the EU has been illegal.)

 

[BlueHammer85]

Ted Heath , our democratically elected PM signed theTreaty of Rome in 1972 , which included the freedom of movement rules, then in 1992 , another 'democratically elected PM' ( though he was only PM at that time due to Thatcher being sacked by the Tories , and himself becoming our PM due to a vote inside the Conservative party, before his successful election later that year) signed the treaty of Maastricht which created the conditions for closer European integration.
Both were in power on a minority of votes cast, but that's the 'democratic' system for you .

cheers

 

[The perfect fumble]

Just weeks before the 1970 general election which made him Prime Minister, Edward Heath declared that it would be wrong if any Government contemplating membership of the European Community were to take this step without `the full hearted consent of Parliament and people'.

However, when it came to it Heath didn't have a referendum because opinion polls at the time (1972) showed that the British people were hugely opposed (by a margin of two to one) against joining the Common Market. Instead, Heath merely signed the documents that took us into what became the European Union on the basis that Parliament alone had passed the European Communities Bill of 1972.

Precedents show that the British constitution (which may not be written and formalised in the same way as the American constitution is presented) but which is, nevertheless, enshrined and codified in the Magna Carta (1215), the Petition of Right (1628), the Bill of Rights (1689) and the Act of Settlement (1701) requires Parliament to consult the electorate directly where constitutional change which would affect their political sovereignty is in prospect. (The 1689 Bill of Rights contains the following oath: `I do declare that no foreign prince, person, prelate, state or potentate hath or ought to have jurisdiction, power, superiority, pre-eminence or authority within this Realm.' Since this Bill has not been repealed it is clear that every treaty Britain has signed with the EU has been illegal.)

This non issue was resolved at the referendum in 75.

 

[The perfect fumble]

 

[blueonblue]

This non issue was resolved at the referendum in 75.

In 1975, when the Government changed, Harold Wilson sought to put right the clear constitutional error by organising a retrospective referendum (something quite unprecedented in British history) designed to obtain the permission of the British people for Britain to join something it had already `joined'.

Wilson's referendum was inspired solely by the realisation that the consent of the electorate ought first to have been obtained before we joined the EEC. The lack of legitimacy of the European Communities Act brought about the decision by the incoming Prime Minister and Labour leadership that a referendum should be held in preference to yet another general election.

But, almost inevitably, the question asked in the referendum was also illegal since voters were asked: `Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?'

The problem was that since Heath had ignored the constitution duties and requirements of Parliament and had signed the entrance documents illegally the words `stay in' were deceptive. We couldn't stay in the EEC because, constitutionally, we had never entered. We couldn't enter the Common Market because Parliament did not have the right to sign away our sovereignty.

The referendum Wilson organised to remedy Heath's constitutional breach misled the electorate on a simple constitutional issue and was, therefore, itself illegal. (Wilson's referendum was passed after a good deal of very one-sided propaganda was used to influence public opinion. If the nation had voted against our `continued' membership of the EEC the political embarrassment for all politicians would have been unbearable.)


Note that last sentence and compare with today's behavior of Call me dave an his motley crew.

 

[The perfect fumble]

The problem was that since Heath had ignored the constitution duties and requirements of Parliament and had signed the entrance documents illegally the words `stay in' were deceptive. We couldn't stay in the EEC because, constitutionally, we had never entered. We couldn't enter the Common Market because Parliament did not have the right to sign away our sovereignty.

The referendum Wilson organised to remedy Heath's constitutional breach misled the electorate on a simple constitutional issue and was, therefore, itself illegal.

And your next trick is standing on the head of a pin.

We should never have joined because it was unconstitutional, so the question "Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)' was illegal because we should never have joined in the first place.

Excuse me, I'm overcome with an urge to sort my sock drawer out.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Just weeks before the 1970 general election which made him Prime Minister, Edward Heath declared that it would be wrong if any Government contemplating membership of the European Community were to take this step without `the full hearted consent of Parliament and people'.

However, when it came to it Heath didn't have a referendum because opinion polls at the time (1972) showed that the British people were hugely opposed (by a margin of two to one) against joining the Common Market. Instead, Heath merely signed the documents that took us into what became the European Union on the basis that Parliament alone had passed the European Communities Bill of 1972.

Precedents show that the British constitution (which may not be written and formalised in the same way as the American constitution is presented) but which is, nevertheless, enshrined and codified in the Magna Carta (1215), the Petition of Right (1628), the Bill of Rights (1689) and the Act of Settlement (1701) requires Parliament to consult the electorate directly where constitutional change which would affect their political sovereignty is in prospect. (The 1689 Bill of Rights contains the following oath: `I do declare that no foreign prince, person, prelate, state or potentate hath or ought to have jurisdiction, power, superiority, pre-eminence or authority within this Realm.' Since this Bill has not been repealed it is clear that every treaty Britain has signed with the EU has been illegal.)

Nice copy paste and of course any theory postulated on a website is of course fact which is why it has been successfully challenged and we are now out.

It of course also means the act of union is illegal, the vote for women is illegal and it means the monarchy is illegal too , every Scottish minister since 1689 , In fact every Scottish person senior in the realm was illegal and probably Scottish MPs are illegal.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Just weeks before the 1970 general election which made him Prime Minister, Edward Heath declared that it would be wrong if any Government contemplating membership of the European Community were to take this step without `the full hearted consent of Parliament and people'.

However, when it came to it Heath didn't have a referendum because opinion polls at the time (1972) showed that the British people were hugely opposed (by a margin of two to one) against joining the Common Market. Instead, Heath merely signed the documents that took us into what became the European Union on the basis that Parliament alone had passed the European Communities Bill of 1972.

Precedents show that the British constitution (which may not be written and formalised in the same way as the American constitution is presented) but which is, nevertheless, enshrined and codified in the Magna Carta (1215), the Petition of Right (1628), the Bill of Rights (1689) and the Act of Settlement (1701) requires Parliament to consult the electorate directly where constitutional change which would affect their political sovereignty is in prospect. (The 1689 Bill of Rights contains the following oath: `I do declare that no foreign prince, person, prelate, state or potentate hath or ought to have jurisdiction, power, superiority, pre-eminence or authority within this Realm.' Since this Bill has not been repealed it is clear that every treaty Britain has signed with the EU has been illegal.)

In the world according to Vernon Coleman.

 

[blueonblue]

It of course also means the act of union is illegal, the vote for women is illegal and it means the monarchy is illegal too , every Scottish minister since 1689 , In fact every Scottish person senior in the realm was illegal and probably Scottish MPs are illegal.

Ok smartypants, rather than flap your trap back that one up ;0)