Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

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BillyShears said:
I think deep down inside you know that Pep's decision on Hart wasn't taken after 45 minutes of pre season training - it was taken sometime last season. He's obviously decided that he wants a new number 1 at the club and as importantly, would like Joe to leave the club. That speaks volumes to me about the depth of change which Pep wants to implement. You may well be right that in the short term this, along with the ripping up of the central defence, was unnecessary, but in the long term these things were always going to happen. We can argue the toss about Joe having played a year under Pep, or even Mangala, but ultimately he was always going to decide against these guys. Better he does it now and we start with a clean broom.

For the record, I think Vinny's next. I suspect that even when he's fit he's going to be behind Stones/Otamendi, and by January it'll be clear that if he wants to play regularly he'll have to find another club.
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Not sure about you last sentence fella tbh, a fit Vinny is first on the team sheet and if he wants the option to play three at the back then there is not a cat in hells chance he will leave-and i don't even see why you have said it to be honest.

Even if we buy another CB we need 4 at the club-Denayer and Mangala look toast so we would have Otimendi, Stones, Vinny and Kolorov (!)
 
BillyShears said:
Agreed, but if he's settled on what his 'best' partnership is and it doesn't include Vinny what do you do with the club captain/country captain earning 200k a week plus who's only going to be playing maybe 15/20 games max over the course of the season?

I'm not saying this will definitely happen, maybe Vinny comes back and kills it in training and remains fit. But my gut feeling from Pep's press conference and the way we've shaped the team is that Stones will be the first choice right sided CB, with Vinny only really coming in to deputise for him when he's injured or needs a rest. That's only sustainable for one season.
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If we are going to compete in the Premiership and the Champions League we need more than two top quality defenders.
 
Pablo1 said:
Yeah, I think it'll only be fitness issues that keep him out as well.
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He's by far the best defender we've got. He's one of the quickest. He's good enough on the ball for the system to work, we don't need both cbs to be playing clever passes all the time.

I can imagine him plus Stones & 1 other in a 3 as well.

It will be down to fitness & staying fit. Not football.
 
its a Barm said:
Hart "throwing games for money" is without any question the most unberlievable thing ever written on here, and believe me there has been some strange stuff written on here, please explain that comment.
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I think he was just giving an example of a more extreme situation where fans might not know what's going on behind closed doors.
Perhaps a slightly better example might be a player having it away with another player's wife or a problem with alcohol etc. i.e. something we'd be completely unaware of, but unacceptable to a club.

That is absolutely no suggestion of that with Hart, it's merely an example of stuff that's outside footballing and training matters. Paul McGrath was considered a great player and yet behind the scenes was turning up drunk. We simply don't see everything that goes on with all the players, I think that was his point illustrated in extreme terms.
 
Neville Kneville said:
If Kompany gets fit, he plays.
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Disagree. Posted many times; He was never going to build his defence around Kompany like Mancini did and Pellegrini tried. I'd still bet my house on him picking the stability of Stones + whoever and letting them nail it down, rather than chuck the lot the moment Kompany feels ready to play again and letting him walk straight back into the side. If we had managed to get Laporte as planned he would definitely be out. The fact we were after him as Stones as primary targets tells me Pep doesn't think a whole lot about Kompany getting back into this side long term.
 
FanchesterCity said:
I think he was just giving an example of a more extreme situation where fans might not know what's going on behind closed doors.
Perhaps a slightly better example might be a player having it away with another player's wife or a problem with alcohol etc. i.e. something we'd be completely unaware of, but unacceptable to a club.

That is absolutely no suggestion of that with Hart, it's merely an example of stuff that's outside footballing and training matters. Paul McGrath was considered a great player and yet behind the scenes was turning up drunk. We simply don't see everything that goes on with all the players, I think that was his point illustrated in extreme terms.
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I was indeed giving an example of an extreme situation that none of us would know about but could influence the manager or club's decision making.

The problems at Swansea last season for example were down to a personal issue between two people that escalated dramatically and led to Monk (who was piggy in the middle) being sacked.
 
Neville Kneville said:
If Kompany gets fit, he plays.
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Personally I don't see Vinny ever getting back to his dominant best. Pep I believe has made a strategic choice to replace him as our defensive leader. In a way this is sad as will be the departure of other greats to whom we should be very thankful. However, Pep has decided to get the knife out quickly and waste no time cutting loose the baggage which he thinks will slow his revolution down.
I support this approach although it may well be next season before we start to see the emergence of a side capable of winning the league and taking on the best in Europe
 
adrianr said:
Disagree. Posted many times; He was never going to build his defence around Kompany like Mancini did and Pellegrini tried. I'd still bet my house on him picking the stability of Stones + whoever and letting them nail it down, rather than chuck the lot the moment Kompany feels ready to play again and letting him walk straight back into the side. If we had managed to get Laporte as planned he would definitely be out. The fact we were after him as Stones as primary targets tells me Pep doesn't think a whole lot about Kompany getting back into this side long term.
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Based on his injury record.

If he gets fit & stays fit, he will play. He is our best defender by a street & not so far behind people such as Stones, as a footballer, that it would in any way weaken our ability to play football. There is nothing Stones did with the ball v Sunderland, that Kompany can't do, with ease. He can't hit te kind of long passes that Kolarov hits, but he can comfortably do the short stuff.

Pep is not stupid, he knows how good Kompany is, & there is absolutely no football reason not to play him. Only the fitness issues.
 
Father Paul said:
Personally I don't see Vinny ever getting back to his dominant best. Pep I believe has made a strategic choice to replace him as our defensive leader. In a way this is sad as will be the departure of other greats to whom we should be very thankful. However, Pep has decided to get the knife out quickly and waste no time cutting loose the baggage which he thinks will slow his revolution down.
I support this approach although it may well be next season before we start to see the emergence of a side capable of winning the league and taking on the best in Europe
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If he's not fit, he won't be any good, if he is, he is miles better than any of the other cbs & it's not even close.

He is the best central defender around, bar none, if fit.
 
adrianr said:
Disagree. Posted many times; He was never going to build his defence around Kompany like Mancini did and Pellegrini tried. I'd still bet my house on him picking the stability of Stones + whoever and letting them nail it down, rather than chuck the lot the moment Kompany feels ready to play again and letting him walk straight back into the side. If we had managed to get Laporte as planned he would definitely be out. The fact we were after him as Stones as primary targets tells me Pep doesn't think a whole lot about Kompany getting back into this side long term.
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I have a feeling Kompany will play no more than 20 games for this club again
 
Neville Kneville said:
If Kompany gets fit, he plays.
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It depends on the definition of fit. If he's fit enough to play week in week out (say 30+ PL games and all CL games), then he plays. The difficulty is if he's only fit enough to play a max of 20-25 games per season. He's too dominant a player and personality to be a back up or to just play the really big games.
 
Proy said:
Have a lot of time for you on here fella but I have to disagree with you here.

I don't think Vincent walks back into this team. I really don't.
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Then Pep is deliberately picking inferior players.

If Stones was as good as VK, which he isn't. Then there is still the position next to him.

Are folks on here going on record as saying Kolarov or Otamendi are better central defenders than Vincent Kompany ?
 
Neville Kneville said:
If he's not fit, he won't be any good, if he is, he is miles better than any of the other cbs & it's not even close.

He is the best central defender around, bar none, if fit.
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Don't want to start an argument because I am a huge admirer of VK but the fact is that leaving aside his chronic injury woes he also has been in decline in recent years. I hope I am wrong but he is unlikely to ever be as good as he was 4/5 years ago again. That said if he can stay fit he will still be better than many other defenders and may have a role.
 
cibaman said:
It depends on the definition of fit. If he's fit enough to play week in week out (say 30+ PL games and all CL games), then he plays. The difficulty is if he's only fit enough to play a max of 20-25 games per season. He's too dominant a player and personality to be a back up.
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Fit means fit, not going missing all the time.

If he gets fit, no manager in their right mind would leave him out of this team. It would be madness.
 
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