Nicolas Otamendi - 2016/17 performances

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ADegenerate said:
That's fine. It does happen occasionally and it burns him. There's also the other side of the coin too. You want to pretend the interceptions and breaks don't happen or him blocking wide open shots in the box? Obviously LaLiga thought it was a net positive because he was Defender of Year. You can add txiki and Manuel to that list that think its worth it. Pep routinely selects Nico while Stones and AK sit.


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Using La Liga team of the year to say Otamendi is great is like using the Premier League team of the year to say Aguero's shite - he's never been in it afterall.
 
ADegenerate said:
That's fine. It does happen occasionally and it burns him. There's also the other side of the coin too. You want to pretend the interceptions and breaks don't happen or him blocking wide open shots in the box? Obviously LaLiga thought it was a net positive because he was Defender of Year. You can add txiki and Manuel to that list that think its worth it. Pep routinely selects Nico while Stones and AK sit.


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That video, as any highlight reel of any player, is devoid of context though. Some of the defending in there is basic shit I'd expect a league one player to do regularly. The other side of the coin is, for example, for all those Arsenal away highlights; he was utter fucking crap in that match, so much so he missed more than he made as he was constantly out of position. Saying it happened occasionally last season is a laugh, it happened more often than not. This season less so but it's still a glaring weakness to the point we need better.
 
If Otto the Superstar couldn't get into Madrid's, Barca's or Munich's team, (and he couldn't and you fucking know it), why is he good enough for us when those are the teams we are looking to be better than in our quest for CL glory?

With him and several like him (Delph, sagna, mango, clichy, Willy Cab, Zabba, Kolarov,) in the team we'll forever go out at the QF / Semi stage. Upgrade them and we'll be in with a shout of going further. This lot sadly aren't where we need them to be to fulfill our aspirations.
 
Kinkladze 1 said:
In my humble opinion, he's an absolute liability who is well below the quality needed for a team hoping to win the CL sometime soon. I see we're now blaming the fullbacks he has to play with and the new system. This is Mangala all over again. Blame everything else but the player! I'm astounded at how many people have been duped into thinking he's a superstar. Perhaps it's because of his superstar haircut and beard.

AND, what gets me the most is that he's a diving cheating pussy. He struts round like ten men then when he gets touched you can cue the dying fly act.
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I appreciate you disliking this quality in him, but to suggest he has duped so many into thinking he is good.

I don't think many are unaware of his warts, we just also happen to be aware of his talents. And on the balance his is a net positive. Frankly, amongst our CBs, none have a better bet positive than he does. Not Kompany, Stones, Kola, Mangala or Denayer.

Not a superstar, bit currently the best CB at Man City.
 
DavidD said:
Otamendi has his style of playing which is being aggressive while defending and tackling and that's what i like in defenders, rather than always depending on right decision, position.
That's how big defenders play, they are never afraid to risk and that character is vital when you want to build a team that is capable of winning CL, that's called individuality ;)
I don't see that much individuality in stones, neither did in Mangala or Nastasic or Savic or in Lescott. That's what kompany has got and that's why sometimes he was used to make stupid mistakes but in most cases that was why city was winning titles during Mancini period, when in most cases team had to defend 1-0 for 25-30 minutes.

He is the best in tackling, look at his highlights, he is always between making stupid mistake or making a highlight of the match and in most cases, in 95% he is making highlights.
I remember maybe Suarez episode where his tackle was not successful but it was successful against Bale, Marcelo and big number of players.

When you look at Barcelona squad you don't see just good players who know how to play properly, they are individuals, characters and in our team otamendi is one of them who has got that.

PS I think this forum is full of trolls maybe, otherwise it's illogical how can someone question otamendi's qualities, we are lucky to have him. Even yesterday, i didn't count how many head battles he won yesterday, yes that foul wasn't good, but 5 or 6 times he won header it saved us from goal maybe.
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Oh so this. So so this. :)
 
Just stop falling down, holding your face, then getting back up again seconds later. It's cheating, and there's no need for it.
 
domalino said:
Using La Liga team of the year to say Otamendi is great is like using the Premier League team of the year to say Aguero's shite - he's never been in it afterall.
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Actually it isn't at all. Being on the list suggest strongly that you are good. Very good. Not being on the list on the other hand doesn't suggest you are shit. Frankly, little can be gleaned from not be on the list. As it could be you were very good and barely didn't make it, to you are very bad and correctly did make it. Sure being on the list might not guarantee you are in fact the best, but the least you could be is very good.


Seeing as there can only be 11 players picked. It stands to reason that some very good players are left out. But the opposite doesn't apply. Only very good players get on the list. Sure some very good players will miss out. But bad players don't get on it. Otamendi getting on it, suggests he was very good. And almost definitely not bad.
 
Kinkladze 1 said:
If Otto the Superstar couldn't get into Madrid's, Barca's or Munich's team, (and he couldn't and you fucking know it), why is he good enough for us when those are the teams we are looking to be better than in our quest for CL glory?

With him and several like him (Delph, sagna, mango, clichy, Willy Cab, Zabba, Kolarov,) in the team we'll forever go out at the QF / Semi stage. Upgrade them and we'll be in with a shout of going further. This lot sadly aren't where we need them to be to fulfill our aspirations.
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I'd like to point out Digne plays for Barca. So do a host of other decent players Ota could outplay. Same applies to Bayern and Madrid.
 
Dax777 said:
Actually it isn't at all. Being on the list suggest strongly that you are good. Very good. Not being on the list on the other hand doesn't suggest you are shit. Frankly, little can be gleaned from not be on the list. As it could be you were very good and barely didn't make it, to you are very bad and correctly did make it. Sure being on the list might not guarantee you are in fact the best, but the least you could be is very good.


Seeing as there can only be 11 players picked. It stands to reason that some very good players are left out. But the opposite doesn't apply. Only very good players get on the list. Sure some very good players will miss out. But bad players don't get on it. Otamendi getting on it, suggests he was very good. And almost definitely not bad.
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That logic is so shit it actually hurts.

Plenty of shit players have been in TOTY and everbody knows that. Using his selection to try and say Otamendi is a great CB is complete and utter nonsense.
 
I love him because he wears his heart on his sleeve and gives everything he possibly can each and every game.

He might make a few mistakes here and there but his all action style of defending can bring that.

He'd look like a world beater in a team with defensive tactics, but we play an attacking/pressing style that puts more pressure on our defence to be perfect.
 
Otamendi's Beard said:
I love him because he wears his heart on his sleeve and gives everything he possibly can each and every game.

He might make a few mistakes here and there but his all action style of defending can bring that.

He'd look like a world beater in a team with defensive tactics, but we play an attacking/pressing style that puts more pressure on our defence to be perfect.
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Guardiola has had the best defensive record in every league season he's ever coached, even better than Mourinho's when they were up against each other in Spain.

He did this with Pique, Dani Alves and Mascherano in defence.

You don't need to be some sort of Maldini-Moore superhybrid flawless defender to look good in a Guardiola defence, just avoid recklessly jumping into tackles, abandoning any defensive positioning and commit dozens of unnecessary fouls.

In fact, his system means defenders have to do less actual defending than anyone else in the country, plus his obsession with perfect defensive structure and midfielders and forwards putting 110% into defending and tracking back means they have more help than 90% of teams as well.

Guardiola is not the problem.
 
domalino said:
Guardiola has had the best defensive record in every league season he's ever coached, even better than Mourinho's when they were up against each other in Spain.

He did this with Pique, Dani Alves and Mascherano in defence.

You don't need to be some sort of Maldini-Moore superhybrid flawless defender to look good in a Guardiola defence, just avoid recklessly jumping into tackles, abandoning any defensive positioning and commit dozens of unnecessary fouls.

In fact, his system means defenders have to do less actual defending than anyone else in the country, plus his obsession with perfect defensive structure and midfielders and forwards putting 110% into defending and tracking back means they have more help than 90% of teams as well.

Guardiola is not the problem.
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Where did I say any of it, especially Guardiola, is a problem? No tactics in the world are perfect and I'd argue that the defence regularly gets put under considerable pressure. Especially as our full backs aren't top class and when we give possession away cheaply in midfield, which happens a lot, teams set up to counter quickly.

Otamendi is as good as any defender at Barca (when Guardiola was there) and is a good player for us. He puts his body on the line where it matters and his positioning, heading, reading of the game/interceptions, distribution, is all great.
 
domalino said:
Guardiola has had the best defensive record in every league season he's ever coached, even better than Mourinho's when they were up against each other in Spain.

He did this with Pique, Dani Alves and Mascherano in defence.

You don't need to be some sort of Maldini-Moore superhybrid flawless defender to look good in a Guardiola defence, just avoid recklessly jumping into tackles, abandoning any defensive positioning and commit dozens of unnecessary fouls.

In fact, his system means defenders have to do less actual defending than anyone else in the country, plus his obsession with perfect defensive structure and midfielders and forwards putting 110% into defending and tracking back means they have more help than 90% of teams as well.

Guardiola is not the problem.
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Nor is Ota
 
Otamendi's Beard said:
Where did I say any of it, especially Guardiola, is a problem? No tactics in the world are perfect and I'd argue that the defence regularly gets put under considerable pressure. Especially as our full backs aren't top class and when we give possession away cheaply in midfield, which happens a lot, teams set up to counter quickly.

Otamendi is as good as any defender at Barca (when Guardiola was there) and is a good player for us. He puts his body on the line where it matters and his positioning, heading, reading of the game/interceptions, distribution, is all great.
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You said that the system and style of play, enacted by the manager, was the reason he doesn't look good.

You're wrong - it's him, and the fact we're clearly looking for a new partner for Stones says it all.
 
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