Damo put this on twitter for different reasons but it's a good clip to use to explain how close we are and what we're doing wrong.
Our use of Bravo and passing side to side and back to the GK draws Everton out. Pause the video at 02:28 game time. When Clichy gets the ball we've used Everton's press to create a situation where they have seven players focused to one area of the pitch. Clichy chooses the wrong option and passes to Sterling, who has no 'out' ball. He doesn't have a single option, and we concede a throw. If, Clichy is thinking quick enough (the biggest problem we have with fullbacks) he can choose a little pass to KDB to run onto, a pass into Yaya or a pass to Zabba. If he chooses the KdB or Yaya option, pause the video again at 02:31 when Silva comes into Picture. Forget where Sterling is now, as he wouldn't be there unless Clichy had passed to him, but look how much space Silva is in and he has a 3 on 3 with Aguero and Sterling.
If Clichy makes that pass to Yaya, Yaya can play first time to Silva and we've completely turned Everton inside out. Instead, he takes the wrong touch, has to then go down the line to a player with no options and the move is over. In fairness to Clichy, the ball back to him from Yaya is poor and he needs a touch, but his touch is poor.
I could be wrong, but this is how I see Pep's vision of how he wants to play, breaking down at the crucial moment because of bad decision making or passing execution.
We're still shit in both boxes, that's a given, but we're not a million miles away with the build up. We created a fantastic situation there and destroyed it ourselves, and it happens multiple times per game.
Sane is left footed. Pep had him purchased to play (primarily) on the left. He may have been used as an inverted (right) winger at his last club but he's a kid who can learn to play on his natural side.
Strange co-incidence that. I lived in and around Exeter for many years, and apart from the fact that I am too lazy, I feel I could have written that. I agree with pretty much everything you say there. Whilst I am not, just yet, in the 'bring Joe back' club, I do believe his passion was, looking back, a very positive asset which seems to be badly missed.You're right, but only up to a point in my book. Yesterday was something of a watershed moment for me. Against Chelsea we were the better team and should have won, and even at Klanfield we could have clawed our way back in, but yesterday had a feel of inevitably about it after no more than about 10 minutes. Defensively it was an even bigger shambles than Leicester and on that score the stats are racking up and telling a story. 9 wins from our last 22 games in all competitions. Going 1-0 down in 14 of those 22 games (8 times inside the first 15 minutes). Conceding 13 goals from the last 21 shots on target against us. Conceding to the opposition's first shot on target in 7 of the last 11 matches. There's only so much opprobrium you can heap on the players. They are all one year older than last season, not 10. We were poor defensively under Pellegrini, but what I've seen at the back this season has frequently been even worse. Yes, they're learning a new system (although increasingly I'm finding hard to actually decipher what that is), yes, it takes time, but - and perhaps because I've had far less previous exposure to Pep than you - I'm still surprised by the degree of faith on here in his preferred "system" and the general confidence, bordering on unswerving belief, that he will be able to make it work satisfactorily in this league, where everyone parks the bus, where everyone has a big, powerful lummox up front to relieve the pressure, and where everyone works like navvies against us. Bottom line though, Pep is the coach, and by general consensus the best in the business, and yet 30 odd games into the season our defence is all too frequently an absolute shambles and, crucially, showing precious little sign of improvement.
Whose fault is it that we started the season with 4 full backs well into their 30's, and with just 3 centre halves (and one of them the broken wreck that is Vincent Kompany), and with just 2 recognised strikers (and one of those a barely tested 19 year old Nigerian kid), and who decided that swapping a generally excellent and physically imposing keeper for arguably the most unconvincing shot stopper we've had at the club since Martyn Margetson was a good idea? I'm not saying it's all on Pep, indeed like you I believe it's 70% due to inheriting an ageing squad that can't do all the things he wants, but he has to cop some of the blame for what's going on. He spent £150m in the summer and, via Txixi, has been in de facto control of the comings and goings for over a year now. The players he did bring in were clearly purchased with a view to playing a certain way (including Bravo), but how are we to assess the judgement behind those purchases when 15 games into the season, the manager expresses surprise that everyone simply parks the bus against us, rendering our diddyman attacking assets neutral at a stroke, and then bypasses our press by the expedient means of lumping it over the top, where our comfortable in possession, but none too imposing physically and frequently exposed, centre halves find themselves getting out-jumped, outpaced and out muscled on a fairly regular basis. Most Blues could have told him that was going to happen, and indeed I relayed my fears to you in the summer about the prospect of the majority of teams in the league setting up against us like Celtic did in successive seasons against Barca (albeit that Vilanova was in charge for the second round I think, although they were still playing the Barca "way") in the Chimps League, beating them at Parkhead in precisely the way Everton did us yesterday, and only going down 2-1 and 1-0 to very late goals in 2 of the other fixtures. How could that have come as a surprise to him, and particularly to Txixi, who has been watching Premier League football non-stop for the last 2 and a half years?
Personally I think we're in relatively deep lumber at the moment and can't afford to carry on getting walloped in the fashion we did yesterday, when the players looked rudderless, and Pep shell shocked. He needs to buy a centre half, a left back, a defensive midfield powerhouse and a physically imposing striker in this window, if we are to have any real prospect of avoiding frequent repetitions of the events at Woodison and finishing 6th in a 6th horse race, and for his own sake if no-one else's Bravo has to be dropped. I don't doubt there will be accusations (not from you) of my being led by the media, but I hate the idea of fixed systems in this league, because they're only ever viable until someone figures out the antidote. You have to be able to play in a variety of ways and right now we just don't seem able to. We're great when the opposition tries to take the game to us and leaves oceans of space for KDB and Spanish Dave to have fun in, but when they set out to frustrate then the outcome is fairly predictable. Arsenal play decent football, not dissimilar to us you might argue, but how many times have they dug out last gasp victories this season by throwing the ball over to that big fucker Giroud? 4? 5? 6? City by contrast haven't scored a single late winner, unless you count the own goal against Sunderland on the opening day. That's how easily thwarted we are, and that shouldn't be the case when you've got players like Aguero, Silva, Ya Ya, KDB and the unfortunately now injured Gundogan at your disposal. I make no long term prediction and indeed no real comment on Pep (adverse or positive) at this stage, as the man has to be given a chance in this ultra competitive league, and there have been enough encouraging signs going forward to suggest he will get it right. Based on what I've seen this season so far overall however, I'd say that the successful implementation of Plan Pep is going to be far harder than anyone first thought, and thus far (defensively at least) it isn't just the players who've been below par
This huge space must be closed up for the visit of spurs on SaturdayAwesome and fully agree
The fullbacks are not fit for purpose at present and its here we are using games both cause of this type of thing and because they are then getting caught further up the pitch in similar situations, losing the ball/giving it away and then all teams do is exploit the huge space in behind them....
In Utd's day they were only competing against Arsenal and Liverpool, and for part of that time, Chelsea. Now half the Prem has multi-billionaire owners and they can sign decent players. United were comfortably stronger than most teams, and Giggs and co could make dramatic looking comebacks. Now you have the likes of Spurs and Southampton (and us) and it's not so easy to dominate. A few of our team were signed with FFP restrictions and we couldn't get the players suitable for SM's cheque book. These days the Burnleys of the league are in your face. We've allowed too many players to grow old together.Totally agree, going back to Utd, even at 3 down, you knew that they would just keep going and get at least something, this lot just "quit" yesterday, the manager looks broken, the team is average at best, complete overhaul is required which is going to take maybe 2/3 Windows, will pep be around for them, I'm not to sure
I think yesterday may be the final straw for Pep. I think after Leicester he agreed to compromise to a system the players felt more comfortable with because they weren't getting his preferred style quick enough. Now they've given up and thrown in the towel on their terms I think he will politely tell some of them to go fuck themselves, and focus on doing his thing with the few players he wants to keep next season.
Joe - Golden Gloves 4 years out of 5 (2nd the other year) - behind a team not focused much on defence in Pell's time. 5 years direct comparison with De Gea. Ok, write off De Gea's first year when he was finding his feet. Joe had a superior clean sheet record the other 4. Let's compare Joe and Neuer internationally. Joe has played some 6 fewer internationals than Neuer and has 6 or so more clean sheets. Neuer plays behind one of the greatest Germany defensive units of all time. No-one has rated the England defence for years ...... Phil Jagielka, Gary Cahill etc. Even in the latter stages of tournaments, Germany are playing significantly weaker opposition.Can't wait for joe hart to be sold and for all the club and fans to finally move on. No more pining for the English overrated keeper who have been dropped by out last three managers and had clanger after clanger in the euros. You fellas need to let go. It's not happening.
Silva plays exactly the Pep way - very similar to his role for Spain.Is alot of these issues also a case of the players not buying into peps system in regards to closing down pressing the opponents...the first 10 games when we were flying and everything was rosey you could clearly see this in our game,the games against Sunderland and the first half at old trafford spring to mind,all the players hunting in packs trying to win the ball back straight away after losing possession.
Is it just me or has that pretty much gone out of our game now?...
The players look like there pressing now just for the sake of it looking like there pressing without actually putting the real effort in to win the ball back.
I think at the moment we just have the wrong team to play this way and that's the issue pep faces.Silva,DeBruyne,Aguero Yaya all can not be assed or are not able to play this way..they were at the beginning of the season (bar yaya obvs cause he wasn't playing) when the new manager feeling was there and everyone was fresh at the start of the season..but it's gone out of our game now and that's a huge worry because that seems to be one of the main staples of peps philosophy.
For this we need more younger energetic players who belive in the system peps wants to play,which our squad is short of at the moment.
I think it's fair to say every player at the club are currently playing for the future under pep now.
And Peps reputation is on the line also.
You're right, but only up to a point in my book. Yesterday was something of a watershed moment for me. Against Chelsea we were the better team and should have won, and even at Klanfield we could have clawed our way back in, but yesterday had a feel of inevitably about it after no more than about 10 minutes. Defensively it was an even bigger shambles than Leicester and on that score the stats are racking up and telling a story. 9 wins from our last 22 games in all competitions. Going 1-0 down in 14 of those 22 games (8 times inside the first 15 minutes). Conceding 13 goals from the last 21 shots on target against us. Conceding to the opposition's first shot on target in 7 of the last 11 matches. There's only so much opprobrium you can heap on the players. They are all one year older than last season, not 10. We were poor defensively under Pellegrini, but what I've seen at the back this season has frequently been even worse. Yes, they're learning a new system (although increasingly I'm finding hard to actually decipher what that is), yes, it takes time, but - and perhaps because I've had far less previous exposure to Pep than you - I'm still surprised by the degree of faith on here in his preferred "system" and the general confidence, bordering on unswerving belief, that he will be able to make it work satisfactorily in this league, where everyone parks the bus, where everyone has a big, powerful lummox up front to relieve the pressure, and where everyone works like navvies against us. Bottom line though, Pep is the coach, and by general consensus the best in the business, and yet 30 odd games into the season our defence is all too frequently an absolute shambles and, crucially, showing precious little sign of improvement.
Whose fault is it that we started the season with 4 full backs well into their 30's, and with just 3 centre halves (and one of them the broken wreck that is Vincent Kompany), and with just 2 recognised strikers (and one of those a barely tested 19 year old Nigerian kid), and who decided that swapping a generally excellent and physically imposing keeper for arguably the most unconvincing shot stopper we've had at the club since Martyn Margetson was a good idea? I'm not saying it's all on Pep, indeed like you I believe it's 70% due to inheriting an ageing squad that can't do all the things he wants, but he has to cop some of the blame for what's going on. He spent £150m in the summer and, via Txixi, has been in de facto control of the comings and goings for over a year now. The players he did bring in were clearly purchased with a view to playing a certain way (including Bravo), but how are we to assess the judgement behind those purchases when 15 games into the season, the manager expresses surprise that everyone simply parks the bus against us, rendering our diddyman attacking assets neutral at a stroke, and then bypasses our press by the expedient means of lumping it over the top, where our comfortable in possession, but none too imposing physically and frequently exposed, centre halves find themselves getting out-jumped, outpaced and out muscled on a fairly regular basis. Most Blues could have told him that was going to happen, and indeed I relayed my fears to you in the summer about the prospect of the majority of teams in the league setting up against us like Celtic did in successive seasons against Barca (albeit that Vilanova was in charge for the second round I think, although they were still playing the Barca "way") in the Chimps League, beating them at Parkhead in precisely the way Everton did us yesterday, and only going down 2-1 and 1-0 to very late goals in 2 of the other fixtures. How could that have come as a surprise to him, and particularly to Txixi, who has been watching Premier League football non-stop for the last 2 and a half years?
Personally I think we're in relatively deep lumber at the moment and can't afford to carry on getting walloped in the fashion we did yesterday, when the players looked rudderless, and Pep shell shocked. He needs to buy a centre half, a left back, a defensive midfield powerhouse and a physically imposing striker in this window, if we are to have any real prospect of avoiding frequent repetitions of the events at Woodison and finishing 6th in a 6th horse race, and for his own sake if no-one else's Bravo has to be dropped. I don't doubt there will be accusations (not from you) of my being led by the media, but I hate the idea of fixed systems in this league, because they're only ever viable until someone figures out the antidote. You have to be able to play in a variety of ways and right now we just don't seem able to. We're great when the opposition tries to take the game to us and leaves oceans of space for KDB and Spanish Dave to have fun in, but when they set out to frustrate then the outcome is fairly predictable. Arsenal play decent football, not dissimilar to us you might argue, but how many times have they dug out last gasp victories this season by throwing the ball over to that big fucker Giroud? 4? 5? 6? City by contrast haven't scored a single late winner, unless you count the own goal against Sunderland on the opening day. That's how easily thwarted we are, and that shouldn't be the case when you've got players like Aguero, Silva, Ya Ya, KDB and the unfortunately now injured Gundogan at your disposal. I make no long term prediction and indeed no real comment on Pep (adverse or positive) at this stage, as the man has to be given a chance in this ultra competitive league, and there have been enough encouraging signs going forward to suggest he will get it right. Based on what I've seen this season so far overall however, I'd say that the successful implementation of Plan Pep is going to be far harder than anyone first thought, and thus far (defensively at least) it isn't just the players who've been below par
Joe - Golden Gloves 4 years out of last 5 (2nd other season) - not exactly behind a defensive minded team under Manuel. Better record than De Gea for 5 years. Ok, write off De Gea's first year. Did you see De Gea's 3 howlers in the Euros ? Against Croatia caught with the ball at his feet and at the near post and against Italy spilled a straightforward shot and conceded.Can't wait for joe hart to be sold and for all the club and fans to finally move on. No more pining for the English overrated keeper who have been dropped by out last three managers and had clanger after clanger in the euros. You fellas need to let go. It's not happening.
The defending is a continuation of what we saw under Pellegrini with personnel one year older.You're right, but only up to a point in my book. Yesterday was something of a watershed moment for me. Against Chelsea we were the better team and should have won, and even at Klanfield we could have clawed our way back in, but yesterday had a feel of inevitably about it after no more than about 10 minutes. Defensively it was an even bigger shambles than Leicester and on that score the stats are racking up and telling a story. 9 wins from our last 22 games in all competitions. Going 1-0 down in 14 of those 22 games (8 times inside the first 15 minutes). Conceding 13 goals from the last 21 shots on target against us. Conceding to the opposition's first shot on target in 7 of the last 11 matches. There's only so much opprobrium you can heap on the players. They are all one year older than last season, not 10. We were poor defensively under Pellegrini, but what I've seen at the back this season has frequently been even worse. Yes, they're learning a new system (although increasingly I'm finding hard to actually decipher what that is), yes, it takes time, but - and perhaps because I've had far less previous exposure to Pep than you - I'm still surprised by the degree of faith on here in his preferred "system" and the general confidence, bordering on unswerving belief, that he will be able to make it work satisfactorily in this league, where everyone parks the bus, where everyone has a big, powerful lummox up front to relieve the pressure, and where everyone works like navvies against us. Bottom line though, Pep is the coach, and by general consensus the best in the business, and yet 30 odd games into the season our defence is all too frequently an absolute shambles and, crucially, showing precious little sign of improvement.
Whose fault is it that we started the season with 4 full backs well into their 30's, and with just 3 centre halves (and one of them the broken wreck that is Vincent Kompany), and with just 2 recognised strikers (and one of those a barely tested 19 year old Nigerian kid), and who decided that swapping a generally excellent and physically imposing keeper for arguably the most unconvincing shot stopper we've had at the club since Martyn Margetson was a good idea? I'm not saying it's all on Pep, indeed like you I believe it's 70% due to inheriting an ageing squad that can't do all the things he wants, but he has to cop some of the blame for what's going on. He spent £150m in the summer and, via Txixi, has been in de facto control of the comings and goings for over a year now. The players he did bring in were clearly purchased with a view to playing a certain way (including Bravo), but how are we to assess the judgement behind those purchases when 15 games into the season, the manager expresses surprise that everyone simply parks the bus against us, rendering our diddyman attacking assets neutral at a stroke, and then bypasses our press by the expedient means of lumping it over the top, where our comfortable in possession, but none too imposing physically and frequently exposed, centre halves find themselves getting out-jumped, outpaced and out muscled on a fairly regular basis. Most Blues could have told him that was going to happen, and indeed I relayed my fears to you in the summer about the prospect of the majority of teams in the league setting up against us like Celtic did in successive seasons against Barca (albeit that Vilanova was in charge for the second round I think, although they were still playing the Barca "way") in the Chimps League, beating them at Parkhead in precisely the way Everton did us yesterday, and only going down 2-1 and 1-0 to very late goals in 2 of the other fixtures. How could that have come as a surprise to him, and particularly to Txixi, who has been watching Premier League football non-stop for the last 2 and a half years?
Personally I think we're in relatively deep lumber at the moment and can't afford to carry on getting walloped in the fashion we did yesterday, when the players looked rudderless, and Pep shell shocked. He needs to buy a centre half, a left back, a defensive midfield powerhouse and a physically imposing striker in this window, if we are to have any real prospect of avoiding frequent repetitions of the events at Woodison and finishing 6th in a 6th horse race, and for his own sake if no-one else's Bravo has to be dropped. I don't doubt there will be accusations (not from you) of my being led by the media, but I hate the idea of fixed systems in this league, because they're only ever viable until someone figures out the antidote. You have to be able to play in a variety of ways and right now we just don't seem able to. We're great when the opposition tries to take the game to us and leaves oceans of space for KDB and Spanish Dave to have fun in, but when they set out to frustrate then the outcome is fairly predictable. Arsenal play decent football, not dissimilar to us you might argue, but how many times have they dug out last gasp victories this season by throwing the ball over to that big fucker Giroud? 4? 5? 6? City by contrast haven't scored a single late winner, unless you count the own goal against Sunderland on the opening day. That's how easily thwarted we are, and that shouldn't be the case when you've got players like Aguero, Silva, Ya Ya, KDB and the unfortunately now injured Gundogan at your disposal. I make no long term prediction and indeed no real comment on Pep (adverse or positive) at this stage, as the man has to be given a chance in this ultra competitive league, and there have been enough encouraging signs going forward to suggest he will get it right. Based on what I've seen this season so far overall however, I'd say that the successful implementation of Plan Pep is going to be far harder than anyone first thought, and thus far (defensively at least) it isn't just the players who've been below par
Bang on. The lesser teams in Spain and Germany roll over. Here they're in your face. Surely the staff told Pep all about Everton - big club that plays like relegation threatened scrappers.This was my one and only away game for the season. Thankfully my 670m loyalty points weren't enough and haven't been enough for a couple of seasons. Unfortunately, whilst hammering away at this keyboard last night I just happened to look up and saw every goal on the news.
I think Pep has woefully underestimated the character and nature of the PL. He has left me with the impression that with the individual quality of the team he thought he might roll over some lesser blessed squads. There's too much money at stake for teams to dropout of the PL. They will fight tooth and nail to get a point that might mean inclusion next season. Too many teams have caused us problems this season with just ordinary striking options. I haven't counted but I suspect we have made as many chances as we did in the title winning seasons but have converted a lot less.
Joe - Golden Gloves 4 years out of last 5 (2nd other season) - not exactly behind a defensive minded team under Manuel. Better record than De Gea for 5 years. Ok, write off De Gea's first year. Did you see De Gea's 3 howlers in the Euros ? Against Croatia caught with the ball at his feet and at the near post and against Italy spilled a straightforward shot and conceded.
Let's compare Joe's international record to Neuer's. Joe has 6 or so clean sheets more than Neuer in 6 or so fewer games. Neuer plays behind one of the greatest defensive units of all time. Joe plays behind one of the most average defensive units in world football. Germany go further in tournaments, but even in the latter stages they're usually up against much weaker teams.
Messi and Buffon rate Joe up there with anyone in world football.
He's not looked comfortable on the left for us. The lad himself prefers the right and we've bought him based on his performances on the right. I very much doubt Pep will want two traditional wingers as hitting the byline and swinging in crosses is arguably an idiotic tactic with Sergio or Jesus for a target.
So for me he's a right winger and until he's considered amongst the elite left wingers in the World he is a right winger.
As I say I really like Sane. I just don't think we needed him considering what we already had. Doesn't mean I'm not excited by him or I don't think he's a great player.
My point remains valid, all our elite players play in or want to play in similar positions.
At two nil down we've a got a young, lightening quick exciting winger on the bench, where he remained.
Why did he remain on the bench?
A, not fit.
B, not fancied.
C, team balance.
For me, to bring on Sane effectively, it would have required a total system and shape change. Pulling players all over the place. I guess Pep thought the same.
If he's cool on the left, it was a terrible bit of management to leave him out. We had no shape and nullified one of our biggest threats.
Some of our team wouldn't get in Burnley's eleven. Zaba's run through brick walls for us for 9 years. Need a few to follow his example.I've said it for a while, but for a top team we have a awful lot of average players who wouldn't get into any of the other squads. We also have some very sensitive types who you wouldn't want next to you in the trenches!
If Joe was as good as you are making out all the top teams in Europe, but Liverpool in particular would be chasing him. The fact is he isn't as you think.
See 2m 30 for Joe's known weakness down to his left and which has similarities to his mistakes in the Euros.
Keeping goal for Barca doesn't involve doing much - only tested in a handful of games.The only change to the starting 11 from the WHU game was Bravo. Now, I was prepared to give Bravo a chance but he just doesn't seem to have the passion of JH and the defence haven't got a clue what he's doing half the time. None of the players seem to have any confidence in him at all. Pep has a big decision to make now; drop him or carry on regardless. I'd stick big willy between the sticks. He commands the area better than Bravo, and he's a bit more predictable. Obviously you don't get in the Barcelona team if you are a s**t player, but I just don't think Bravo has adapted to the Premier League (yet?).
It wasn't just Bravo making mistakes, but the defensive errors may not have happened if the players weren't in two minds about passing the ball to the keeper at every opportunity. There were also poor performances higher up the pitch, so nobody really came away from that game with their pride intact. As usual, stick our early chances away - different game altogether.
I don't know what is going on in the dressing room, but it just looks like we don't have any leaders out there any more, especially since Head and Shoulders went out on loan. Can't wait for Vinny to come back. Either that, or get Andy Morrison to do the team talk.
Yep, ManUre - half a billion pound squad, £90m player and 6th. Yes, we're disappointed, but United play shite football - long balls to Fellaini and have peaked this season.Yeah look at the scum spent half billion and sit in midtable