PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[dadnlad]

I believe the PL are having to compromise with certain members whereas we are not, we're awaiting their next move.

So the pl know the verdict but city don't
Doesn't add up to pl rules

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

CAS was a high level limited walk through a very limited amount of the same underlying material. But it was a very different hearing in a different forum to a different set of charges with a different set of evidence and different set of issues.

The people in the case literally describe it as "complex" (literally that word) and its cost £100m+ in legal fees. But have it your way.

I'm sure the whole case was complex in many areas. I suspect the majority of the complexity involved things other than the substantive issues. I'd imagine the issue of related parties was quite a complex one, as it's the first time the issue has been properly tested (assuming it was).

But the essence of the Etihad sponsorship was that UEFA claimed they'd only paid £8m of the £60m annual sponsorship and ADUG had paid the other £52m. City's evidence showed that wasn't the case and Etihad had paid the full amount. That's just an accounting issue, not a test of legal precedent or trying to interpret potentially ambiguous clauses in a commercial contract. But obviously I don't know the full range of issues that were involved.

I've been involved behind the scenes in two major commercial cases. In my accountancy days I was involved in a case where British Midland Airways were suing Yemen Airways over the latter's unilateral cancellation of a 2-year leasing and service contract for 2 airplanes. The concept wasn't particularly complex - did BMA have the right to be compensated for the cancellation when the contract hadn't run its full course? But it still took a long time to be eventually resolved (in BMA's favour).

In fact it caused a diplomatic incident, as BMA had taken possession of one of the aircraft back anyway then impounded the other. Unfortunately at the point they impounded it, it was about to carry the Yemeni president back from his state visit to the UK. Mrs Thatcher was incensed at the timing and my boss, as a senior member of the Conservative party, and a director of BMA, got both barrels.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

@slbsn @Prestwich_Blue You both disagree with alot on A to B shit, but what do yas agree with? And what do you both PREDICT will be the eventual outcome?

I'm not sure we could agree on what we agree on.

But I'd say we agree that the PL will find it difficult to prove these charges even on the balance of probabilities required. And also that it's taken far too long to get the verdict.

 

[Silva61]

So the pl know the verdict but city don't
Doesn't add up to pl rules

Not at all but they know they can't wIn, but still have to satisfy our detracter, does that make sense.

 

[Rammy Blue]

Khaldoon didn't need to say anything about the case.
He has always said in past interviews he can't talk about it.
The fact that he looked confident and he said he will have a wonderful chat and sit down fills me with 200% confidence.

This guy is a high flyer, he doesn't need to say anything about us, he chose to say something, that speaks absolutely huge volumes.

Yet there are a few on here trying to pour cold water on what Khaldoon said which I don't understand at all.

I'm expecting more news dropping next week.

You saying it’s imminent then?

 

[wolviedinho]

Khaldoon didn't need to say anything about the case.
He has always said in past interviews he can't talk about it.
The fact that he looked confident and he said he will have a wonderful chat and sit down fills me with 200% confidence.

This guy is a high flyer, he doesn't need to say anything about us, he chose to say something, that speaks absolutely huge volumes.

Yet there are a few on here trying to pour cold water on what Khaldoon said which I don't understand at all.

I'm expecting more news dropping next week.

I have been celebrating since the second part of the interview dropped -:)

The club will be cleared and we should all be happy and also angry with the leagues approach to ruin the clubs reputation.

Arguing with the complexities only looks good and informative. I know more than you etc etc.

We have all seen the charges. We have all read the tiny scraps of info available. We have also seen a new stand, co op, hotel, training ground expansion and high level of transfer spend. On top of that we have khaldoon licking his lips in anticipation but it’s still not enough.

Well maybe it is for some and maybe some others can be cautious if it is their nature/interest.

I still wouldn’t be surprised if the tribunal verdict is either highly redacted or missing large parts that could not be made public.

Either way we will get a fudge.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I still wouldn’t be surprised if the tribunal verdict is either highly redacted or missing large parts that could not be made public.

Either way we will get a fudge.

That's possible but if we've agreed to that in any way then it's unlikely that Khaldoon will give it both barrels in his subsequent interview.

 

[Silva61]

If at least part of the delay is due to trying to limit the damage to the PL, then I do wonder how much he will actually

I have been celebrating since the second part of the interview dropped -:)

The club will be cleared and we should all be happy and also angry with the leagues approach to ruin the clubs reputation.

Arguing with the complexities only looks good and informative. I know more than you etc etc.

We have all seen the charges. We have all read the tiny scraps of info available. We have also seen a new stand, co op, hotel, training ground expansion and high level of transfer spend. On top of that we have khaldoon licking his lips in anticipation but it’s still not enough.

Well maybe it is for some and maybe some others can be cautious if it is their nature/interest.

I still wouldn’t be surprised if the tribunal verdict is either highly redacted or missing large parts that could not be made public.

Either way we will get a fudge.

If the reputation of the PL gets trashed because of this, sponsors and tv money going elsewhere one thing is for sure our club with it's investment is in the best place when it comes to income streams, although they'll probably change the rules, they'll never learn.

 

[wolviedinho]

That's possible but if we've agreed to that in any way then it's unlikely that Khaldoon will give it both barrels in his subsequent interview.

True but Khaldoon’s both barrels and the fans might not be the same. A true statesman to the end.

Or maybe he is so ingrained now he is berting the league -:)

I think we can all agree it won’t be explosive more muffled and holistic.

Just on another note mate, your contribution to this thread has been immense and appreciated even if you do get abit of stick hahaha

 

[cheekybids]

Nothing has changed about complexity and certainly I have not suggested it has. No decision should take 18 months regardless of complexity.

1. The case is very complex and yes enormous amounts of documentary and oral evidence absolutely makes allegations and the proof of them more complex.
2. No simple case has a barrister line up like this: Blackstone Chambers’ Adam Lewis KC, Andrew Hunter KC, Jason Pobjoy, Shane Sibbel, Tom Cleaver, Will Bordell, Emmeline Plews and Femi Adekoya v Monckton Chambers’ Paul Harris KC, Blackstone Chambers’ Lord Pannick KC, and Serle Court’s Philip Marshall KC and James Mather, and One Essex Court’s Nathaniel Bird

To try and suggest this case was not very complex is really quite strange at this point. It is just not debatable.

Nobody was surprised by the nature of the club's defence. Stories like this from someone like Delaney are just all rubbish. Everybody knows a defence team like City put up fights extremely hard. Litigation is confrontational, adversarial, aggressive and bitter. Especially when allegations of dishonesty and bad faith are in play. As for new battlefronts, they would have to be separate cases like APT which due to the distinctive and misaligned timelines do not impact the deliberations - the panel can't take in things that the parties haven't even pleaded as their position.

You managed to pack a lot of nonsense into a relatively short post there.

The delay is due to the complexity (which may have been mentioned once or a hundred times). Stefan has always maintained that timescales are purely informed guesswork on his part.

Do you really think that the only evidence considered is 10 or a 100 emails?

"As far as we know there is not something setting" makes no sense.

Your last line is just laugable.

Im going to challenge the complexity.

The premier league are required to show evidence of wrong doing by City & City show how they complied. If we can’t provide all the evidence from accounts & contracts which has previously been audited then we’re fucked & I don’t believe we are.

The only way I can imagine complexity is lawyers arguing over language about why you can 2 opposing sides believing something different, there’s no justifiable reason that it takes so long to agree that.

Im going to boldly say that the issue is what evidence they are all sitting on & what it does.

 

[oakiecokie]

@slbsn @Prestwich_Blue You both disagree with alot on A to B shit, but what do yas agree with? And what do you both PREDICT will be the eventual outcome?

Well I know who I`d sooner believe. ;)

 

[hallsteve62]

Well I know who I`d sooner believe. ;)

Do tell ...

 

[give it to gordon]

Both those statements can be true. Issues can always crop up during the process. The ruling could have a massive impact on the reputation of multiple global partners, senior managers. If Khaldoon is considered to be a fraudster it will be a shattering blow to all UAE investment deals in the UK ( because he also runs the Sovereign Wealth Fund). Thousands of jobs could be put at risk. The political fall-out for the Government would be huge. The legal battle is only one aspect.

Yea and opposition fans press/media think Khaldoon has risked all this on little old City.

 

[yerwot?]

as a kfa, when a case reaches this level, it's plain as plain can be "complex". Given both sides have the same documents/emails etc, both looking for a "smoking gun" or something that can be semanticised into one, and equally making sure that does not happen to them then it's complex in a way that lay people find it hard to digest. I think an uproar is inevitable whatever the outcome, the msm will see to that, City win...it's a stitch-up, City lose and the rabble will be demanding the harshest punishment, teams narrowly relegated will be demanding compensation, beaten finalist will demand to be declared cupwinners, 'kin 'ell, if the plot thickens even more....

 

[cheekybids]

The much more likely conclusion is that people just thought he was a bit of a twat/pain in the arse.

But that was clear for years, he’s worked with Joe Lewis for over 30 years & was at Spurs for 20 + years.

So they’ve put up with him being a twat for that long, why now.

I can’t deny he’s a twat & I’ve always thought he’s a shit negotiator, out of the Trump handbook of people would rather do a deal elsewhere but I just don’t believe it, even if I believe what you’ve been told is true.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

If at least part of the delay is due to trying to limit the damage to the PL, then I do wonder how much he will actually say.

He suggested he had a lot to get off his chest. He didn’t have to do that at all, especially if discussions are going on between both parties about managing the aftermath.

 

[Manchester_lalala]

Khaldoon didn't need to say anything about the case.
He has always said in past interviews he can't talk about it.
The fact that he looked confident and he said he will have a wonderful chat and sit down fills me with 200% confidence.

This guy is a high flyer, he doesn't need to say anything about us, he chose to say something, that speaks absolutely huge volumes.

Yet there are a few on here trying to pour cold water on what Khaldoon said which I don't understand at all.

I'm expecting more news dropping next week.

Fun sponges, that’s what they are.

 

[Cityboy1972]

If there's no announcement before the prem fixtures come out it's safe to say we're not getting relegated

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Im going to challenge the complexity.

The premier league are required to show evidence of wrong doing by City & City show how they complied. If we can’t provide all the evidence from accounts & contracts which has previously been audited then we’re fucked & I don’t believe we are.

The only way I can imagine complexity is lawyers arguing over language about why you can 2 opposing sides believing something different, there’s no justifiable reason that it takes so long to agree that.

Im going to boldly say that the issue is what evidence they are all sitting on & what it does.

While CAS was relatively limited in its scope, 2 days of the 3 were devoted to issues like exact date for the limitation cut-off and admissibility of the emails. The substantive issue took 1 day from what I could gather.

The fact that this hearing took 10 weeks and the cost involved proves it was far more comprehensive than CAS. There were more substantive issues to address and the PL rules are far more generic than FFP, which probably makes things more complicated. Arguing over whether we showed "utmost good faith" - an ephemeral concept - is likely to be a lot harder than arguing over whether we disguised equity investment as sponsorship revenue.

It's also possible the Fordham arrangement was perfectly legal and above board, but the IC may possibly decide we didn't act in utmost good faith.

But looking at the audit trail of a payment is not in itself complex.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Well I know who I`d sooner believe. ;)

Keith Moon?

;)