“The work of God”?

[Beswick Prize Bands Big Drum]

When was the last time a Christian didn’t leave you alone?

How many wars have Christianity caused recently?

The 20th century is riddled with 100’s of millions of deaths under atheist regimes. In fact atheist regimes, that impose atheism, have a habit of committing genocide against their own people.

You’re not being mithered by Christians in 2020 Britain, don’t talk wet, and the Anglican and Catholic Church here isn’t making the money you think.

Repeating Hitchens doesn’t really get you anywhere unfortunately. The man played the greatest game of mental gymnastics ever in claiming the state atheism in the USSR, was actually belief in God.

He himself was on the atheist gravy train and I’m a fan of his writing ability.

Name some of the Atheist Regimes that have caused 100's of millions of deaths.
No one is born religious, people are just brainwashed into believing it.

 

[Ban-jani]

I said I’d leave religion alone when it left me alone, not referring to Christianity specifically. I guess it didn’t take you long to develop a Christian persecution complex? ;-)

Nevertheless, Christianity, Judaism, Islam...they’re all spots on the same arse. If you don’t think religion is having direct and indirect effects on everyday life, then your level of delusion is higher than I thought. Are you sure that dream of yours wasn’t in fact a stroke? You might want to get it checked out.

Security checks, tax breaks, places of worship being exempt from lockdown restrictions etc etc. No effect my arse.

Well I’d argue 20th century and even 21st century Christianity had a positive effect on society but unfortunately so many have now turned away from it, society is deteriorating as a result.

Regarding security checks, you’re right and I agree, I’m not defending religion as a whole, I’m just saying don’t tar us all with the same brush, I’m not tarring you with Joseph Stalin’s government.

Places of worship have still maintained social distancing and my weekly church has been via zoom.

Plus they survive on donations and do good in the community, taxing them would be counterproductive.

 

[Ban-jani]

Name some of the Atheist Regimes that have caused 100's of millions of deaths.
No one is born religious, people are just brainwashed into believing it.

Here’s what I posted yesterday to someone else mate:



It really can be used, this wasn’t just a society that just happened to not be religious, they implemented atheism as an actual policy and it was major part of societal change.

It also was illegal and many Christians were persecuted.

This is from the Wikipedia page:

From 1932 to 1937 Joseph Stalindeclared the 'five-year plans of atheism' and the LMG was charged with completely eliminating all religiousexpression in the country. Many of these same methods and terror tactics were also imposed against others that the regime considered to be its ideological enemies.

If we’re accounting the number killed during the rule of the USSR was a minimum of 15m, directly from the government, although historians believe it could be much much higher, the Spanish Inquisition was between 3,000 and 5,000 executed and the Crusades is relatively unknown due to the obvious, but it’s likely not anywhere near 15m, maybe 10% of that based on Google sources and counting only civilians it’s like 1% of the USSR’s persecution of their own people.

Now, does that mean atheism should get the blame for the USSR? No.

It also doesn’t mean Christianity should get the blame for an individual Pope ordering wars a thousand years ago.

You’ve also got state atheism in Mao’s China:

The People's Republic of China, proclaimed in 1949 under the leadership of Mao Zedong, established a policy of state atheism. Initially, the new government did not suppress religious practice, but, like its dynastic ancestors, viewed popular religious movements, especially in the countryside, as possibly seditious.

And you’ve got Pol Pot too:

The Khmer Rouge actively persecuted Buddhists during their reign from 1975 to 1979. ... 25,000 Buddhist monks were massacred by the regime, which was officially an atheist state. The persecution was undertaken because Pol Pot believed that Buddhism was "a decadent affectation".

Millions killed in both of these too, all within the same century.

Again, this isn’t to attack atheism generally speaking and atheists, as no one on this forum is being led to these things purely from not believing in God, I should know as a former atheist, I didn’t want to kill anyone.

I am merely pointing out that atheism has lead some societies to atrocities, as religious belief has.

 

[Ban-jani]

it certainly does but no reference to the one in the gospels which is my issue with pauls letters, he really should do
in fact its astounding he doesn't
he talks like the man in the gospels doesn't exist which is curious to say the least

Would you mind expanding on this bit?

Not being difficult I just don’t know what you’re referring to?

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

Well I’d argue 20th century and even 21st century Christianity had a positive effect on society but unfortunately so many have now turned away from it, society is deteriorating as a result.

Regarding security checks, you’re right and I agree, I’m not defending religion as a whole, I’m just saying don’t tar us all with the same brush, I’m not tarring you with Joseph Stalin’s government.

Places of worship have still maintained social distancing and my weekly church has been via zoom.

Plus they survive on donations and do good in the community, taxing them would be counterproductive.

Jospeh Stalin was a Despot who’s atrocities we’re as a result of his upbringing. His policies weren’t because he was an Athiest/atheist policies.

Athiest means you don’t believe in god. Not what determines your policies. You’re just rolling out more tired arguments.

Sorry to paraphrase Hitchens again. Did the Catholic Church supporting Hitler, or Genocide in Rwanda or rejection of condoms in Africa have a positive contribution?

 

[Ban-jani]

Jospeh Stalin was a Despot who’s atrocities we’re as a result of his upbringing. His policies weren’t because he was an Athiest/atheist policies.

Athiest means you don’t believe in god. Not what determines your policies. You’re just rolling out more tired arguments.

Sorry to paraphrase Hitchens again. Did the Catholic Church supporting Hitler, or Genocide in Rwanda or rejection of condoms in Africa have a positive contribution?

He made himself God, that’s what happened and when there is no concept of God above us, there is always the risk a man tries to do that. Is it a coincidence the three major states that implemented atheism as government policy in the last century, and forced it, also murdered millions of their own people?

My point isn’t that the religious don’t do evil too, it’s that atheism isn’t free of fault, when implementing it at political level.

It is a response to people choosing the worst thing religious organisations have done and pointing it at everyone who believes in God. I am just doing the same to show you that it’s not fair.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

He made himself God, that’s what happened and when there is no concept of God above us, there is always the risk a man tries to do that. Is it a coincidence the three major states that implemented atheism as government policy in the last century, and forced it, also murdered millions of their own people?

My point isn’t that the religious don’t do evil too, it’s that atheism isn’t free of fault, when implementing it at political level.

It is a response to people choosing the worst thing religious organisations have done and pointing it at everyone who believes in God. I am just doing the same to show you that it’s not fair.

We’re going round in circles mate. I’d rather heatedly discuss over a beer than a message, so I’m leaving it here.

 

[Ban-jani]

We’re going round in circles mate. I’d rather heatedly discuss over a beer than a message, so I’m leaving it here.

It doesn’t even need to continue really, all we have to agree on is people commit atrocities whatever their beliefs.

We all know what extremist Muslims are capable of.

There’s a history of atrocities in both the Catholic and Protestant churches.

And atheist societies that banned religions also committed genocide.


People are flawed.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

It doesn’t even need to continue really, all we have to agree on is people commit atrocities whatever their beliefs.

We all know what extremist Muslims are capable of.

There’s a history of atrocities in both the Catholic and Protestant churches.

And atheist societies that banned religions also committed genocide.


People are flawed.

Not going to agree, as it’s not that black or white. It’s all about degrees.

Yes people are flawed (I guess your god didn’t do a great job), but belief in gods is humanity’s collective greatest flaw.

 

[Ban-jani]

Not going to agree, as it’s not that black or white. It’s all about degrees.

Yes people are flawed (I guess your god didn’t do a great job), but belief in gods is humanity’s collective greatest flaw.

If you cannot agree with that and choose to ignore the bloodbath of atheism gripping 20th century nations, then that is your own problem with bias.

Humans are flawed because we choose to be, we can choose to be better and that’s why your God is just, he gives you the choice.