“The work of God”?

Ban-jani said:
That’s not me.

The most vivid dream I’ve ever had is what prompted me to start reading the Gospels and when I got to the end of John, it was kind of like a light switch.

Still took me weeks and weeks to get to that point, it doesn’t happen overnight and it’s very difficult.

You start by contemplating it in your head and by the time you do change, you feel it in your chest, like a feeling of being in love.

I was completely atheist until it happened.

Sounds mental I know and I’ll be called a loon but that’s the truth.
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But that's kind of what I'm talking about. You're not reading up on it out of academic interest, reading criticism of it, and then over time deciding that it's probably true, you're reading it in response to something that occurred in your life. For you it was a dream, for other people it might be a life event or something else. But the point is that people are reading it with the hope or desire to get something out of the experience. You're instantly reading it less critically than you would have previously done. Literally every convert I've ever heard speak on the topic has some variation on this (except those people who convert for marriage or something).

As for the feeling of love, you only have to look at something like celebrity to know how that can occur. There are people out there who genuinely felt love for Michael Jackson, for example. To them, the feeling is completely real, but in reality their relationship with Jackson was entirely one-sided. And you get a similar attitude to evidence with people like this, who when evidence is presented that suggests he was a bit of a villain, the find themselves unable to objectively analyze the facts and will go out of their way to make arguments that maintain that feeling they have. It's like when the rich guy can't accept that his girlfriend of half his age is only interested in his money.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
But that's kind of what I'm talking about. You're not reading up on it out of academic interest, reading criticism of it, and then over time deciding that it's probably true, you're reading it in response to something that occurred in your life. For you it was a dream, for other people it might be a life event or something else. But the point is that people are reading it with the hope or desire to get something out of the experience. You're instantly reading it less critically than you would have previously done. Literally every convert I've ever heard speak on the topic has some variation on this (except those people who convert for marriage or something).

As for the feeling of love, you only have to look at something like celebrity to know how that can occur. There are people out there who genuinely felt love for Michael Jackson, for example. To them, the feeling is completely real, but in reality their relationship with Jackson was entirely one-sided. And you get a similar attitude to evidence with people like this, who when evidence is presented that suggests he was a bit of a villain, the find themselves unable to objectively analyze the facts and will go out of their way to make arguments that maintain that feeling they have. It's like when the rich guy can't accept that his girlfriend of half his age is only interested in his money.
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With all due respect, you don’t really know what my thought process was and the specifics I considered.

I was very critical of it and I still doubt from time to time. Every aspect of what I was reading I ran through my head a lot and did very much critique it.

The event prompted me to read it, I didn’t believe it at that point though, in fact I got half way through Matthew and was very sceptical.

The process doesn’t happen overnight and it’s incredibly difficult. There have been times when I wanted to just drop the idea of changing my mind for convenience.

Having to tell people you were completely wrong about the universe isn’t easy either, you normally get laughed at.
 
Ban-jani said:
The Romans did mention him but it was after he died.

The word of mouth accounts are the stories about him, that eyewitnesses talked about.

In the ancient world, this is incredibly normal and illiterate people were incredible at remembering stories and retelling them in detail, due to the fact it was their only means of communicating.

It’s very common in the ancient world for information to be passed in this manner and the accounts of Jesus are more comprehensive than a lot of figures, we presume exist.

Most scholars view the Gospels as being biographical.
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You've heard of Chinese whispers i take it?

As others above have stated, there are "Christian" stories, persecution, death, reborn etc etc from every corner of this planet that pre-date Jesus and the Bible by hundreds of if not thousands of years.

Every culture has the same. Every. Culture.

What makes you think yours is the best?
 
BimboBob said:
You've heard of Chinese whispers i take it?

As others above have stated, there are "Christian" stories, persecution, death, reborn etc etc from every corner of this planet that pre-date Jesus and the Bible by hundreds of if not thousands of years.

Every culture has the same. Every. Culture.

What makes you think yours is the best?
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Cucumber sandwiches.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
But that's kind of what I'm talking about. You're not reading up on it out of academic interest, reading criticism of it, and then over time deciding that it's probably true, you're reading it in response to something that occurred in your life. For you it was a dream, for other people it might be a life event or something else. But the point is that people are reading it with the hope or desire to get something out of the experience. You're instantly reading it less critically than you would have previously done. Literally every convert I've ever heard speak on the topic has some variation on this (except those people who convert for marriage or something).

As for the feeling of love, you only have to look at something like celebrity to know how that can occur. There are people out there who genuinely felt love for Michael Jackson, for example. To them, the feeling is completely real, but in reality their relationship with Jackson was entirely one-sided. And you get a similar attitude to evidence with people like this, who when evidence is presented that suggests he was a bit of a villain, the find themselves unable to objectively analyze the facts and will go out of their way to make arguments that maintain that feeling they have. It's like when the rich guy can't accept that his girlfriend of half his age is only interested in his money.
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Brilliant.
 
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