10 | Jack Grealish - 2022/23 Performances

[Devil's Advocate]

For those who love their stats

Goal scoring or shooting chances created per player per 90 in the Prem

Volume looks great.

2nd behind KDB for Key Passes p90 in the PL as well >4 90s.

BUT the eye test suggests he is not creating lots of bigger xG shots.
The data from the same site backs this up. Try it yourself for all PL players on the "passing" tab filtered for xGA.
He's 15th overall, a million miles behind KDB, behind Gundog and a smidgeon ahead.of Phil.

With apologies to all the bored x (but accept this is boring for many)

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Is he? He's started away vs PSG, Liverpool, Liverpool in the FA Cup, Liverpool in the shield, Chelsea, Spurs, 5/6 away games in the CL groups since he arrived.

He's missed 1 big away game this season, Liverpool, but he's played them more than anyone else away from home.

In fact 15 of his 26 Premier League starts have been away from home, so he's actually getting picked more away from home than at the Etihad...


This is the crux of the Grealish debate. You have your suspicions and feelings that he's not good or doesn't play big away games, and all the real world evidence shows you're wrong. And you'll probably be griping about him in 2028 because he's not going anywhere.

You also seemingly can't distinguish between different people replying to you because the "rant about lists" section of your comment isn't anything to do with mine.

You are including the start of 21/22 where Grealish played loads. Sterling got something like 4 starts from the 1st 15 PL&CL group games. Sterling then was back in favour from late 2021 and was ahead of Grealish in the rotation.

This calendar year Grealish has started just 13 times from 29 PL games (9 from 18 in 2nd half of 21/22, 4 from 11 this season) Only 3 of those games have been against BIg 6 teams - 2 against United and 1 against Chelsea and all 3 at home.

Remember he also did NOT start any of the 6 CL k/o rounds.

At the moment he is a glorified squad player. Simple.

 

[Maly]

But what does that mean? Take a very recent passage of play vs Brighton. De Bruyne puts one on a plate for Grealish, rather than take that chance, Grealish then plays it back to De Bruyne on his weak foot with men in front of him and the shot is easily saved.

The point being, his stupid, lazy pass will go on this list. In reality, Grealish should have scored..

I think that’s the issue many take with him. He often ‘passes the buck’ to a player in a far worse position to the one he is in.
For me so far, he’s just not brave enough.

We can talk all we want, he’s simply not producing the key numbers and that is why fans are asking questions and Pep normally leaves him out of big games..

If Pep is so keen on him ‘controlling the counter attacks’ can anyone explain why he was left out vs Liverpool? Arguably the best counter attacking side in the Europe?

Pep has to say stuff like that, because there’s not much else to say.

He’s not stunk by any stretch but he’s been disappointing. His numbers appalling but we can carry him and his qualities.

I was just posting some stats mate, but if you wish to pull apart any positive stats on the lad, crack on if it makes you feel better

As for key numbers? Guess you mean goals & assists? Is that your definition of key numbers?

If so, do you honestly believe with all of the huge amounts of data available to our analysts & Pep, they think that who scored or got the assist is a key number?

Here’s some more positive stats which I don’t believe are appalling. You can pull them apart dude, or maybe realise he’s being far more effective for the team than your eyes are telling you ;)


He has the 6th best goal creation actions in the team, a tiny fraction below Gundogan & Mahrez

Goal-Creating Action is an advanced metric that tracks the two offensive/attacking actions that leads to a goal.

Which is a far more insightful & useful metric than simply ‘who made the final pass’


So he’s involved in creating 0.69 goals per 90mins he plays. That’s being involved with creating just over 2 goals every 3 games he plays in

Is that appalling?

Granted his number of assists is appalling, but the analytical football world seem to have moved on from assists being overly important as a stat, because in isolation, it’s completely fucking useless, so maybe let it go?

What I find even more interesting, is the fact that only one of our goals has been created by dribbling, which may explain why we don’t see any of our wingers really take anybody on anymore. Ie dribbling clearly isn’t the best way to create goals

The dribbling part is also backed up by the Prem list. Guessing this is the main reason we don’t see Grealish rinsing players too often, as it’s pretty pointless & not the way we play



This one shows some other top quality players (maybe with one exception)


Miles ahead of Salah, Fernandes, Jesus & Sterling for being involved with creating goals & all supposedly creative players

Is that appalling?

Btw, his in depth passing stats are absolutely mustard too

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

The real World evidence doesn’t show that at all.
The real World evidence shows he’s been underwhelming..

I see you’ve ignored all my other points about the evidence you’ve provided,

What’s this “rants about lists” quote all about?
I‘ve simply looked at the information you’ve posted and responded to it politely.
Fir example the ’normalised progressive carries’ graph has him just above Vinicius Jnr, who I think we came all agree also posts far greater numbers elsewhere on the pitch. As does Dembelle.

But I’d also be hesitant to use data or statistics that include Dan James towards the top.

This is one fight you would never win. They just wouldn't accept the fact.

 

[schfc6]

I was just posting some stats mate, but if you wish to pull apart any positive stats on the lad, crack on if it makes you feel better

As for key numbers? Guess you mean goals & assists? Is that your definition of key numbers?

If so, do you honestly believe with all of the huge amounts of data available to our analysts & Pep, they think that who scored or got the assist is a key number?

Here’s some more positive stats which I don’t believe are appalling. You can pull them apart dude, or maybe realise he’s being far more effective for the team than your eyes are telling you ;)

View attachment 59275
He has the 6th best goal creation actions in the team, a tiny fraction below Gundogan & Mahrez

Goal-Creating Action is an advanced metric that tracks the two offensive/attacking actions that leads to a goal.

Which is a far more insightful & useful metric than simply ‘who made the final pass’

View attachment 59276
So he’s involved in creating 0.69 goals per 90mins he plays. That’s being involved with creating just over 2 goals every 3 games he plays in

Is that appalling?

Granted his number of assists is appalling, but the analytical football world seem to have moved on from assists being overly important as a stat, because in isolation, it’s completely fucking useless, so maybe let it go?

What I find even more interesting, is the fact that only one of our goals has been created by dribbling, which may explain why we don’t see any of our wingers really take anybody on anymore. Ie dribbling clearly isn’t the best way to create goals

The dribbling part is also backed up by the Prem list. Guessing this is the main reason we don’t see Grealish rinsing players too often, as it’s pretty pointless & not the way we play

View attachment 59278

This one shows some other top quality players (maybe with one exception)

View attachment 59279
Miles ahead of Salah, Fernandes, Jesus & Sterling for being involved with creating goals & all supposedly creative players

Is that appalling?

Btw, his in depth passing stats are absolutely mustard too

I’m sorry, but we’re reading those stats totally different.

I don’t think what you’ve posted paints him a great light to be honest.

For example goals & shots creations per 90 at City, he’s 6th. And doesn’t offer any of the other threats that the players above him do.
He’s just above Rodri in goal & shot creation per 90. With less goal
threat.

His goals shots creation in the Premier League overall is also poor and he’s our lowest ranked attacker. Haaland aside. He’s ranked alongside Chillwell and Antonio.

I think he’s a decent player, but I think mine and many Curt fans issue is, I expect elite performance from our elite players. If these are his elite attributes and he’s still behind Chillwell. Then it’s not good enough.

There’s loads of players offering what Grealish does that also score and are a constant danger.

According to those stats and the ones posted by Domalino, he’s performing nowhere near elite level.

By your own evidence, he’s offering up decent football with a lack of killer end product.

 

[Maly]

I’m sorry, but we’re reading those stats totally different.

I don’t think what you’ve posted paints him a great light to be honest.

For example goals & shots creations per 90 at City, he’s 6th. And doesn’t offer any of the other threats that the players above him do.
He’s just above Rodri in goal & shot creation per 90. With less goal
threat.

His goals shots creation in the Premier League overall is also poor and he’s our lowest ranked attacker. Haaland aside. He’s ranked alongside Chillwell and Antonio.

I think he’s a decent player, but I think mine and many Curt fans issue is, I expect elite performance from our elite players. If these are his elite attributes and he’s still behind Chillwell. Then it’s not good enough.

There’s loads of players offering what Grealish does that also score and are a constant danger.

According to those stats and the ones posted by Domalino, he’s performing nowhere near elite level.

By your own evidence, he’s offering up decent football with a lack of killer end product.

Don’t be sorry mate, not everyone understands stats ;)

(Joking mate)

I wasn’t really posting for debate, but happy to discuss mate

Basically when you strip away everything you’ve posted & the stats I’ve provided, what you’re saying is that Grealish being involved with creating over 2 goals every 3 games are appalling numbers because Childwell is involved in more & he doesn’t have enough assets

Just wow mate

I’m sure you don’t mean that, but that’s exactly how I’ve interpreted it my friend

 

[Maly]

I’m sorry, but we’re reading those stats totally different.

I don’t think what you’ve posted paints him a great light to be honest.

For example goals & shots creations per 90 at City, he’s 6th. And doesn’t offer any of the other threats that the players above him do.
He’s just above Rodri in goal & shot creation per 90. With less goal
threat.

His goals shots creation in the Premier League overall is also poor and he’s our lowest ranked attacker. Haaland aside. He’s ranked alongside Chillwell and Antonio.

I think he’s a decent player, but I think mine and many Curt fans issue is, I expect elite performance from our elite players. If these are his elite attributes and he’s still behind Chillwell. Then it’s not good enough.

There’s loads of players offering what Grealish does that also score and are a constant danger.

According to those stats and the ones posted by Domalino, he’s performing nowhere near elite level.

By your own evidence, he’s offering up decent football with a lack of killer end product.

By your own evidence, he’s offering up decent football with a lack of killer end product.

Yes absolutely as he’s providing more opportunities than anyone in the Prem per 90, other than KDB, to get players into a position to make an attempted assist


Phil, Bernardo & Kev tend to be the players we work into positions to supply the last pass, would be nice if he adds more goals & assists, but he’s more of a Gundogan than a KDB for me, so should never be expected to hit Phil or Kev’s numbers. Quite simply, it’s not me of his main strengths & may never improve very much

 

[schfc6]

Don’t be sorry mate, not everyone understands stats ;)

(Joking mate)

I wasn’t really posting for debate, but happy to discuss mate

Basically when you strip away everything you’ve posted & the stats I’ve provided, what you’re saying is that Grealish being involved with creating over 2 goals every 3 games are appalling numbers because Childwell is involved in more & he doesn’t have enough assets

Just wow mate

I’m sure you don’t mean that, but that’s exactly how I’ve interpreted it my friend

Not really, you’re highlighting what are considered his strengths. If these are his strengths then considering his obvious weakness in direct goal involvements he needs to much higher up than the likes of Antonio & Chillwell.

My point is really, lots of elite players are posting similar or better numbers to the ones considered his best strengths and still out performing him in the other key areas.

He’s 6th in our own squad for the stats you’ve posted.

 

[schfc6]

By your own evidence, he’s offering up decent football with a lack of killer end product.

Yes absolutely as he’s providing more opportunities than anyone in the Prem per 90, other than KDB, to get players into a position to make an attempted assist
View attachment 59290

Phil, Bernardo & Kev tend to be the players we work into positions to supply the last pass, would be nice if he adds more goals & assists, but he’s more of a Gundogan than a KDB for me, so should never be expected to hit Phil or Kev’s numbers. Quite simply, it’s not me of his main strengths & may never improve very much

Again, I’d suggest this isn’t impressive at all when put into context. If this is what we consider Grealish’s biggest strength, then to only be level pegging with Benrahma considering the side he’s in, and also failing to deliver adequate numbers in other areas. I’d suggest it’s a fairly poor reflection of him.

Benrahma wouldn’t get in our u23’s.

I wouldn’t expect and I don’t expect Grealish to put up De Bruyne or other elite wide forwards numbers. But I’d expect him to put up Jack Harrison numbers.

He’s an elite player on a huge wage at City taking up one of three attacking positions, don’t think it’s too much to expect a little better.

I’m not even that big a detractor of him. I’d probably play him a bit deeper against weaker sides, not sure he’s got the gas or intelligence to play centrally at the highest levels. But would be an interesting option against the bus parkers or lazy fuckers like the swamp dwellers.

 

[oldius]

Like the Brexiteers who will not countenance the economic damage clearly caused by leaving the EU, the anti-Grealish brigade refuse to recognise any contribution Jack makes, despite all the evidence provided. It is what it is, and it is the only thing I despise about my club.